Daniel P. Barron

God gave them up to vile passions.

Monday, March 4, 2019 

sl150: i United Methodist Church rejects proposal to allow LGBTQ ministers

lju1977: ii There is hope after all.

Isz82: iii Especially for polygamists and adulterers. The traditionalists made sure to allow them to be ministers.

lju1977: I know, but at least this is a start, and hopefully in the future, those issues will be addressed as well. Don't be despondent.

Isz82: They won't be, because the conservatives embrace adulterers and polygamists.

I'm not despondent. As I explained, I fully support the break up of the UMC. And soon the Southern Baptists behind them.

Protestantism is dying in the US. It's morning in America.

Daniel: Polygyny is not forbidden by the Bible.

Isz82: True. iv However, longstanding Christian tradition has condemned polygamy and especially adultery. The consensus against polygamy is every bit as longstanding in Christian tradition as the prohibition on homosexuality.

Daniel: Most churches lead to hell. Most people who call themselves Christian are not saved. Their traditions are not God's traditions. (Colossians 2:8 v)

Adultery is just as bad as homosexuality; vi both deserve public execution.

NostraSkolMus: Homosexuality was not forbidden as a part of the new covenant.

Daniel: Yes it is. (1 Corinthians 6:9 vii)

NostraSkolMus: But that was Paul. Where did Jesus say it?

Daniel: From A True Church:

The doctrine of Christ is not only what He taught in Matthew 5:3-7:27, or all the red print in the gospels. The doctrine of Christ equals the entirety of Scripture (Psalm 119:160). Those who transgress and do not remain within the bound of holy writ, do not have God. They are not saved (2 John 9).

What Paul said is as good as what Christ said.

NostraSkolMus: here’s another link with partial truths that is just as credible as yours.

Daniel: That article is wrong. My justification for Paul being in the truth is that Peter says he is, and Christ says Peter is. And that's besides the fact that Paul's writings are part of the Word of God which is God. (John 1:1 viii)

NostraSkolMus: If that is truly what you believe, then you would see the reformation as blasphemy and should be catholic. God gave Peter the keys, how could Peter have created a less than perfect church?

Daniel: Catholicism leads to hell.

NostraSkolMus: You’re a bigot.

anakinmcfly: Except that 1 Cor 6:9 was not talking about homosexuality, at least not until modern English translations.

Daniel: That's not true, but have some Romans 1:

26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.

anakinmcfly: Romans 1:26-27 refers specifically to men who abandoned God and pursued idolatry and all manner of evil, and for this reason God caused them to succumb to unbridled lusts, exchanging and abandoning their prior relations for sexual passions that were both new and unnatural to them.

This is vastly different from gay Christians hitting puberty.

Daniel: It calls homosexuality a "vile passion."

In the Old Testament it's called an "abomination."

Paul says they won't "inherit the kingdom of God."

You have to throw out quite a few verses in order to justify the lie that homosexuality is not immoral. How can you be sure any of the Bible is true if parts of it can be discarded?

Iswallowedafly: ix So adultery is okay, but being gay isn't?

Can someone explain this?

Daniel: Adultery is not okay. Leviticus 20:

10 ‘The man who commits adultery with another man’s wife, he who commits adultery with his neighbor’s wife, the adulterer and the adulteress, shall surely be put to death.

Malhavoc430: You can't cite Leviticus for this stuff unless you are going to address the shrimp and mixed fabric problems.

Daniel: Okay.

Iswallowedafly: per the church, can you hold a leadership position if you cheated on your wife?

Daniel: What is cheating? It's not wrong for a man to have multiple wives. But if you mean adultery (taking another man's wife) then the answer is yes and no. If I repent (of adultery or homosexuality or whatever) then I can not only be a leader but also a member in general. If I don't repent, then I'd be going to hell and should be kicked out of the church.

Iswallowedafly: So I can cheat on my wife. Say I'm sorry.

And then continue to live with the woman I cheated on my wife with and all is good?

Because I said I was sorry?

Daniel: It's not cheating if the other woman isn't married. There's no reason to apologize. And you should continue to live with both of them or else you are a fornicator. x

  1. Identifies as "Episcopalian (Anglican)." ^
  2. Identifies as "Christian (Cross)." ^
  3. Identifies as "Pagan." ^

  4. Darwin: That should be the end of the matter. But, then he goes on to say, "However, longstanding Christian tradition has condemned polygamy . . . ." No doubt unwittingly, but here he condemns "Christian tradition" and the words of Christ are apropos: Mark 7:

    ‘This people honors Me with their lips,
    But their heart is far from Me.
    7 And in vain they worship Me,
    Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’

    8 For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men


  5. Colossians 2:

    8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ.


  6. See "Homosexuality and Marriage." ^
  7. 1 Corinthians 6:

    9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites,


  8. John 1:

    1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.


  9. Identifies as "Atheist." ^

  10. Darwin: This might be better said, "or it is harlotry." Scripture calls it harlotry (prostitution), to have sex without the commitment of marriage (e.g. Genesis 34:31; 38:24; Leviticus 21:9; Deuteronomy 22:21).


6 Responses

  1. [...] That's the same as sex for these purposes. The difference between harlotry and marriage is intent. [...]

  2. [...] Scripture says homosexuals go to hell [...]

  3. [...] The same law they claim to affirm says in the very next chapter that men are held responsible for the prostitution of women, saying: "do not prostitute your daughter." Prostitution is simply sex outside of marriage. The same chapter says "you shall love your neighbor as yourself." How loving is it to treat a woman like a prostitute so that she is deserving of death? [...]

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