Daniel P. Barron

Never go full heretic.

Thursday, December 20, 2018

TheKingsPeace: I realize most Christians do not have confession the way Catholics do ( confessing sins to a cleric etc). Is there a process for confession or penance? Is it just a “ im so sorry God?” prayer or attempts to heal relationship with others?

Daniel:

Is there a process for confession or penance?

Yes. The Bible says:
James 5:

16 Confess your trespasses to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much.

The trouble is finding people who really believe; most churches lead to hell.

Matthew 10:

32 “Therefore whoever confesses Me before men, him I will also confess before My Father who is in heaven.

Perhaps you can just confess in public, but I strongly advise against doing so in a false church.

GainfulLoss: Wow, you were perfectly accurate until the sentence starting with "The trouble". Then you went full heretic. Never go full heretic.

Daniel: What I have said is backed up by scripture. You need to repent!

GainfulLoss: Some of it was. Your notion that most churches are false churches is patently wrong and wholly unsupported.

Daniel: Check out the links I have provided. Most churches teach destructive heresies that lead to hell. I know this because I compare what they say to what the Bible says.

GainfulLoss: I followed the link. To put it politely, your conclusion leads me to believe that you haven't actually read the Bible. Neither you nor your linked site are accurate to the Word. You are in heresy.

Daniel: Can you be more specific. What claim have we gotten wrong?

GainfulLoss: Very simply, your statement that "most churches lead to hell." Most don't.

Additionally, you misinterpret the language ("she'ol" is decidedly not a term for hell, as an example) and pull verses out of context to try to support a warped and twisted false religion of your own apparent creation. You honor neither Jesus nor His word, to say nothing of your treatment for His church.

You are worse than the Pharisees, for at least they started from a good intent. May the Lord condemn you.i

Daniel:

Very simply, your statement that "most churches lead to hell." Most don't.

We call out specific churches with fine detail on our site. Additionally, the Bible says most people who call themselves christian are not saved, and that very few will believe:
Matthew 7:

13 “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. 14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

As for your specific example:

Additionally, you misinterpret the language ("she'ol" is decidedly not a term for hell, as an example)

Are you getting this from our article on hell?

In the Old Testament, the most common word for hell is she'ol (e.g. Deuteronomy 32:22;ii Psalm 9:17;iii 55:15;iv Proverbs 5:5;v 7:27;vi 9:18;vii 15:24;viii 23:14;ix Isaiah 5:14x). Note in particular Isaiah 14:9-11;xi Ezekiel 32:18-21,xii 24-25,xiii and 30.xiv Yet, this word can also mean grave (e.g. Genesis 37:35;xv 42:38;xvi 44:29,xvii 31;xviii 1 Samuel 2:6;xix Job 14:13;xx Psalm 6:5;xxi 88:3;xxii 89:48;xxiii 141:7;xxiv Ecclesiastes 9:10xxv), and, at times, it appears to have both the grave and hell in view (e.g. Job 24:19;xxvi Psalm 49:15;xxvii 86:13xxviii).

I'm not sure what your point is. Are you saying there is no hell?

GainfulLoss:

Additionally, the Bible says most people who call themselves christian are not saved, and that very few will believe:

That verse doesn't exclusively refer to those who claim to be Christian. Correctly interpreting it to be of all people wouldn't support your claim of most Christians, and most churches, being in error.

Are you getting this from our article on hell

Yes.

I'm not sure what your point is.

You try to do language studies to back your point, but the understanding of the language that you push is inaccurate. An accurate understanding would, again, undercut your whole Highlanderxxix Church bit.

Are you saying there is no hell?

I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying that you don't seem to have even a basic grasp of what the Scriptures actually say. That, or you are intentionally misleading people. Either way, you are in error. I would not want to face the Lord's judgement having pushed the heresy you push.

Daniel:

That verse doesn't exclusively refer to those who claim to be Christian.

Yes it does. Read the whole chapter and see. It's about brothers and sisters in Christ hypocritically judging each other.

4 Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me remove the speck from your eye’; and look, a plank is in your own eye? 5 Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

It goes on to warn us about false teachers who will appear to be preaching the Word, but who are actually teaching lies.

15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves.

It even explicitly says what I have claimed:

21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.

This chapter is clearly not talking about the people of the world who don't call themselves christian.

You try to do language studies to back your point, but the understanding of the language that you push is inaccurate.

The guy who wrote our article on hell knows how to read Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic. You claim that his translation is inaccurate. What is the correct translation?

An accurate understanding would, again, undercut your whole Highlander Church bit.

We do not claim to be the only true church. That is why we use the indefinite article 'a' so as to leave it open to the possibility that there are others.

He never got back to me on this thread, but had some things to say when I published a different conversation:

GainfulLoss: Those churches have issues, but [you have] some incorrect beliefs, too...

To grab a few highlights, you start off saying most churches don't preach the Bible, which is patently false unless you only accept the Bible as written in its original language, which is a ridiculous proposition that would invalidate any church that preached in a useful way. Your acceptance of the KJV as a suitable translation also eliminates that possibility.

The rapture does not take place at the beginning of the seven years

That is one possibility, but it is not the only Biblically supported one. It is also not in line with the nature of God revealed to us.

If you can get baptized, you must. Otherwise you are not saved

Salvation is by faith, not works. You are wrong. (Eph 2:9xxx)

Your attempt at defending polygamy involves such mental gymnastics as should be expected in the physical only at worldwide competitions. It also ignores all verses suggesting the proper plan for marriage.

I thought we just established they are proven to hate the Lord and teach counter to scripture.

You didn't establish that, but you did establish yourself as contentious (1 Cor 11:16,xxxi Rom 2:8xxxii).

The Bible says women should not even ask questions, but remain silent

You back this up with a verse, but the verse refers to the law as reason. Again, you fail to consider that you might be in error, and you go out to cause contention and strife as a result.

You ought to get some good teaching from a good church, not that blasphemous website you push nor anyone affiliated with its heresy. You have no standing to call out anyone over religion.

This is all I have to say on the matter, as you seem unrepentant in your zest for conflict, your unwillingness to take correction, and your zeal for inaccurate doctrine.

Daniel:

To grab a few highlights, you start off saying most churches don't preach the Bible, which is patently false unless you only accept the Bible as written in its original language, which is a ridiculous proposition that would invalidate any church that preached in a useful way. Your acceptance of the KJV as a suitable translation also eliminates that possibility.

No scripture sited on any of these claims....

That is one possibility, but it is not the only Biblically supported one. It is also not in line with the nature of God revealed to us.

Again no scripture mentioned......

Salvation is by faith, not works. You are wrong. (Eph 2:9)

Ah, finally! And... faith without works is dead. (James 2:14-24xxxiii)

Your attempt at defending polygamy involves such mental gymnastics as should be expected in the physical only at worldwide competitions. It also ignores all verses suggesting the proper plan for marriage.

Back to no scripture to defend your lies.

You didn't establish that, but you did establish yourself as contentious (1 Cor 11:16, Rom 2:8).

I am not being contentious with my brothers and sisters. I am contending earnestly for the faith with people who are not in the truth to begin with. (Jude 1:3-4xxxiv)

You back this up with a verse, but the verse refers to the law as reason.

I don't understand what you mean. All I have done is take it for exactly what it says.

This is all I have to say on the matter

May God save you.

  1. Way to love your enemy!
  2. Deuteronomy 32:
    22 For a fire is kindled in My anger,
    And shall burn to the lowest hell;
    It shall consume the earth with her increase,
    And set on fire the foundations of the mountains.

  3. Psalm 9:
    17 The wicked shall be turned into hell,
    And all the nations that forget God.

  4. Psalm 55:
    15 Let death seize them;
    Let them go down alive into hell,
    For wickedness is in their dwellings and among them.

  5. Proverbs 5:
    5 Her feet go down to death,
    Her steps lay hold of hell.

  6. Proverbs 7:
    27 Her house is the way to hell,
    Descending to the chambers of death.

  7. Proverbs 9:
    18 But he does not know that the dead are there,
    That her guests are in the depths of hell.

  8. Proverbs 15:
    24 The way of life winds upward for the wise,
    That he may turn away from hell below.

  9. Proverbs 23:
    14 You shall beat him with a rod,
    And deliver his soul from hell.

  10. Isaiah 5:
    14 Therefore Sheol has enlarged itself
    And opened its mouth beyond measure;
    Their glory and their multitude and their pomp,
    And he who is jubilant, shall descend into it.

  11. Isaiah 14:
    9 “Hell from beneath is excited about you,
    To meet you at your coming;
    It stirs up the dead for you,
    All the chief ones of the earth;
    It has raised up from their thrones
    All the kings of the nations.
    10 They all shall speak and say to you:
    ‘Have you also become as weak as we?
    Have you become like us?
    11 Your pomp is brought down to Sheol,
    And the sound of your stringed instruments;
    The maggot is spread under you,
    And worms cover you.’

  12. Ezekiel 32:
    18 “Son of man, wail over the multitude of Egypt,
    And cast them down to the depths of the earth,
    Her and the daughters of the famous nations,
    With those who go down to the Pit:
    19 ‘Whom do you surpass in beauty?
    Go down, be placed with the uncircumcised.’

    20 “They shall fall in the midst of those slain by the sword;
    She is delivered to the sword,
    Drawing her and all her multitudes.
    21 The strong among the mighty
    Shall speak to him out of the midst of hell
    With those who help him:
    ‘They have gone down,
    They lie with the uncircumcised, slain by the sword.’

  13. Ezekiel 32:
    24 “There is Elam and all her multitude,
    All around her grave,
    All of them slain, fallen by the sword,
    Who have gone down uncircumcised to the lower parts of the earth,
    Who caused their terror in the land of the living;
    Now they bear their shame with those who go down to the Pit.
    25 They have set her bed in the midst of the slain,
    With all her multitude,
    With her graves all around it,
    All of them uncircumcised, slain by the sword;
    Though their terror was caused
    In the land of the living,
    Yet they bear their shame
    With those who go down to the Pit;
    It was put in the midst of the slain.

  14. Ezekiel 32:
    30 There are the princes of the north,
    All of them, and all the Sidonians,
    Who have gone down with the slain
    In shame at the terror which they caused by their might;
    They lie uncircumcised with those slain by the sword,
    And bear their shame with those who go down to the Pit.

  15. Genesis 37:
    35 And all his sons and all his daughters arose to comfort him; but he refused to be comforted, and he said, “For I shall go down into the grave to my son in mourning.” Thus his father wept for him.

  16. Genesis 42:
    38 But he said, “My son shall not go down with you, for his brother is dead, and he is left alone. If any calamity should befall him along the way in which you go, then you would bring down my gray hair with sorrow to the grave.”

  17. Genesis 44:
    29 But if you take this one also from me, and calamity befalls him, you shall bring down my gray hair with sorrow to the grave.’

  18. Genesis 44:
    31 it will happen, when he sees that the lad is not with us, that he will die. So your servants will bring down the gray hair of your servant our father with sorrow to the grave.

  19. 1 Samuel 2:
    6 “The Lord kills and makes alive;
    He brings down to the grave and brings up.

  20. Job 14:
    13 “Oh, that You would hide me in the grave,
    That You would conceal me until Your wrath is past,
    That You would appoint me a set time, and remember me!

  21. Psalm 6:
    5 For in death there is no remembrance of You;
    In the grave who will give You thanks?

  22. Psalm 88:
    3 For my soul is full of troubles,
    And my life draws near to the grave.

  23. Psalm 89:
    What man can live and not see death?
    Can he deliver his life from the power of the grave? Selah

  24. Psalm 141:
    7 Our bones are scattered at the mouth of the grave,
    As when one plows and breaks up the earth.

  25. Ecclesiastes 9:
    10 Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with your might; for there is no work or device or knowledge or wisdom in the grave where you are going.

  26. Job 24:
    19 As drought and heat consume the snow waters,
    So the grave consumes those who have sinned.

  27. Psalm 49:
    15 But God will redeem my soul from the power of the grave,
    For He shall receive me. Selah

  28. Psalm 86:
    13 For great is Your mercy toward me,
    And You have delivered my soul from the depths of Sheol.

  29. A movie reference. "There can be only one!"
  30. Ephesians 2:
    9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

  31. 1 Corinthians 11:
    16 But if anyone seems to be contentious, we have no such custom, nor do the churches of God.

  32. Romans 2:
    8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,

  33. James 2:
    14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

    18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

  34. Jude 1:
    3 Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints. 4 For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lewdness and deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ.

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  1. [...] Daniel: We do not claim to be the only true church. [...]

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