Matt Slick of Christian Apologetics & Research Ministry (CARM) stopped by my chat room. He didn't say much, but I used it as an opportunity to address his article on our church.
Martok: Hi Matt
Matt Slick: hi
GRIM [Atheist]: actually Matt Slick, or just someone who took the name?
Daniel: yes hello
Daniel: https://carm.org/a-true-church
Daniel:
Affirms the Trinity
not quite
Joëlle [Christian]: Why would anyone take that name?
Kinda weird.
Daniel: gotta say, this article is pretty good so far
GRIM [Atheist]: idk why people would take someone's name but there's someone here with the name "mr. atheist" (youtuber) and isn't him
GRIM [Atheist]: people do that
Daniel:
It also teaches doctrinal regeneration, the error that you must have correct doctrine in order to be saved. This is a false teaching. We come to know the truth because we are saved; we don't know the truth in order to become saved (1 Cor. 2:14; Rom. 3:10-12).
Joëlle [Christian]: I have seen "Markiplier" in a game.
It is always weird.
I read that article.
Daniel: 1 Corinthians 2:
14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Daniel: Romans 3:
10 As it is written:
“There is none righteous, no, not one;
11 There is none who understands;
There is none who seeks after God.
12 They have all turned aside;
They have together become unprofitable;
There is none who does good, no, not one.”Daniel: amen to these verses, but that isn't excuse to teach false doctrine!
Joëlle [Christian]: Is this going to be a pinned message?
Seems like it would be useful.
Daniel: good idea
Daniel: we don't teach that you must know all of Scripture in order to be saved
Daniel: but Scripture clearly says that those who are saved will consent to wholesome words
Daniel: 1 Timothy 6:
3 If anyone teaches otherwise and does not consent to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which accords with godliness,
GRIM [Atheist]:
CARM recommends everyone to stay away from this church; It is dangerous.
GRIM [Atheist]: from that article
Daniel:
A True Church mistakenly requires non-essentials as essentials.
there are no "non-essentials" when it comes to Scripture. What a load of hogwash that you can discard parts of the Bible and still be saved!
Joëlle [Christian]: Yeah. That article is of the atruecult.info category
Daniel: Psalm 12:
6 The words of the Lord are pure words,
Like silver tried in a furnace of earth,
Purified seven times.
7 You shall keep them, O Lord,
You shall preserve them from this generation forever.Daniel: "preserve them from this generation forever"
Daniel: maybe I'm not reading it right, but the english seems to suggest it's being protected from those who are meant to keep it safe i
Daniel: people like Matt Slick who claim to represent the God of the Bible, but do not preserve His word.
Daniel:
Notice that the answer isn't clear. The question asks if there more to do than having faith in Christ's death and resurrection to be saved. A True Church says there is more to do: 'believe in Christ Himself." Notice how it differentiates between faith in Christ's work and Christ himself. But, to have faith in Christ's work IS to have faith in Christ. A True Church erringly nitpicks on word meaning, fails to understand the regenerative work and calling of God on a person, and creates false nuances of doctrine knowledge and practice that must be observed in order to be saved.
Daniel: we don't say there is "more to do." We don't say there is a difference. The two are the same. Scripture even warns about people who claim to believe in Christ but who do not really. (Matthew 7:21 ii)
Daniel: Since Christ who died for us is "the Word," you cannot believe in Him without also believing all of "the Word" aka Scripture.
Daniel: John 1:
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
and Matthew 4:
4 But He answered and said, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.’ ”
Daniel: To believe in the false doctrine of essentials and non-essentials is to not believe in the real Christ
Daniel:
Such an answer would cause a person to be confused and fearful, wondering if he might not be saved because he doesn't have a close-to-perfect understanding of doctrinal details as prescribed by this group. This is very dangerous.
Amen! They should be fearful! (Proverbs 1:7 iii)
Daniel: We don't say you must have a "close to perfect" understanding. It's even okay if someone has some beliefs wrong.
Daniel: But they will, again, consent to wholesome words.
Daniel: And we have observed throughout the many years of contending for the faith, that people who are not in the truth often do not have only a few beliefs wrong, but they have many things wrong, and they do not consent to wholesome words.
Daniel: To round this out, as I'm at the end of the article, I'll point out that Scripture says believers must be of "one mind" speaking with "one mouth"
Daniel: 1 Peter 3:
8 Finally, all of you be of one mind, having compassion for one another; love as brothers, be tenderhearted, be courteous;
Daniel: Romans 15:
6 that you may with one mind and one mouth glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Daniel: who's mind is this?
Daniel: 1 Corinthians 2:
16 For “who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct Him?” But we have the mind of Christ.
Joëlle [Christian]:
Such an answer would cause a person to be confused and fearful, wondering if he might not be saved because he doesn't have a close-to-perfect understanding of doctrinal details as prescribed by this group. This is very dangerous.
This was me even before I found ATC.
For ~ 2-3 years. It was hellish.The passage in the Bible about finding the narrow way scared me so horrifically that it was hard for me to even complete every day tasks.
Thank God for the Logos Bible app and my exposure to the truths within it so that I wasn't taken totally off guard by ATC's website.
I may have been one of the happiest people to find the website because I was wondering if I had apostasized.
The "You think that you are saved, but you're not!" thing was a major sense of relief.
You cannot apostasize of you were never truly Christian to begin with! :]
I may be going to hell is definitely easier on the mind than "I've insulted the Spirit of grace and trodden Christ underfoot and am now doomed to hell forever"
He has not responded to any of this. We did a short voice chat but not much was said as my internet connection is not great.
- I was reading it wrong. It's indicating a time frame. "from now until forever" ^
- Matthew 7:
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
- Proverbs 1:
7 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge,
But fools despise wisdom and instruction.
[...] I've done a voice chat with him once, at his request. It wasn't very productive. He has an article about our church, and I have responded to it. It's not only limited atonement. There are many other false things that he teaches. [...]