This log has be modified for spelling, formatting, and offensive language.
Daniel: Hi.
Bashstreet: Hi.
Daniel: Check out http://atruechurch.info/ - let me know if you disagree with anything.
Bashstreet: Sorry, I do not click links.
Daniel: Why not? I'll paste the first few paragraphs from the home page for ya:
Lengthy copy paste snipped out since you the reader clearly don't have a problem with clicking links.
Bashstreet: No idea what that stuff is. Maybe who wrote this was pessimist. :)
Daniel: Do you disagree with it?
Bashstreet: With what ? I do not bother much with U.S cults.
Daniel: Do you think that you believe the Bible?
Bashstreet: They all the same some bloke comes tells he only can tell the truth and you must then worship him and become sex slave and it all ends in mass suicide.
Daniel: We'renota cult.i http://atruechurch.info/marksofacult.html
More copy paste snipped.
Bashstreet: All cults claim not be cults. So what is your groups beliefs in nutshell?
Daniel: We believe that very few people actually believe the Bible, and that most churches lead to hell. The Bible does not forbid: polygyny, drugs, gambling, smoking, drinking, masturbation.
Daniel: God is: a man, the city of Jerusalem, the seven spirits of God, the kingdom of God and its throne, the three men who visited Abram, thefourhorses of Zechariah,ii wisdom (which is feminine). God creates evil and sends deception.
Bashstreet: Right, so only way to be saved in your way and who is your leader?
Daniel: We don't have a leader besides Christ.
Bashstreet: No one?
Daniel: Darwin Fish was formerly the leader but he stepped down when one of his daughters left the truth.
Bashstreet: Right.
Daniel: The Bible recommends having a leader of a church,iii but it's not a requirement.
Bashstreet: Did he call himself Prophet too?
Daniel: A prophet is simply someone who proclaims the Word of God.iv
Bashstreet: Or claims to. And your church is the only real church and only people who belong into your church will be saved?
Daniel: We don't know of any other true churches, but there may be some out there.
Bashstreet: Well this is what every cult in U.S says :/ there are hundreds. All claim to have prophet or prophets and all claim their church is the only real one.
Daniel: We can prove it with scripture.
Bashstreet: They claim that also.
Daniel: Okay, so?
Bashstreet: My point is there are many groups who behave like you. I am not at all against small groups (or large) devote themselves serving lord in their way (long as it is Godly service) But everyone should leave the condemnation and judgement to lord in issues of who is saved or not. Actually anyone or any group that claim they are saved and someone is not by default is ungodly and is risking God's wrath.
Daniel: They don't believe like us, because they don't believe the whole Bible. And judging is believing. http://atruechurch.info/judging.html
More copy paste snipped.
Bashstreet: Still you must leave the condemnation and judgement to God. Only God decides who is saved not you me or your prophet or any man. God Is right and I can teach you what is righteous judgement and when and what to judge if you want.
Daniel: Go ahead.
Bashstreet: We are to judge our own behavior by basis of what is God's will. We can also judge other people fruit. But we are to leave judgments like "Who is saved" to God as it is God's domain and we have no place making such decisions and it is dangerous to anger God.
Daniel: To judge fruit is to judge salvation. Matthew 7:
15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles?Is a "false prophet" saved?
Bashstreet: No.v Judging fruit is what Jesus told us to do. By our fruit we know each other. If you do not judge persons fruit what will you know others by then? Everyone can be saved it is not our job to decide who is saved or will be saved. God decides this end off.
Daniel: I don't know who "will be" saved, but I can know who is currently saved.
Bashstreet: No. Only God knows who is saved. :)
Daniel: That is a lie. Show me where the Bible says this thing you have said.
Bashstreet: Unless you have saved radar that keep peeping like metal detector when someone is saved.
Daniel: The Bible says I will know them by their fruit. If you are saying or doing something that goes against the Bible, I know you are not saved.
Bashstreet: If you claim you know who is saved you claim to be prophet of God Or maybe God himself. You never do something against bible?
Daniel: WellI am a prophet, because as I said earlier, the word simply means someone who proclaims the Word of God. When I sin, I repent. Obviously I'm talking about people who don't repent.
Bashstreet: Right so how can you claim someone who do not follow bible not being saved when you yourself do not follow bible.
Daniel: I do follow the Bible.
Bashstreet: No you do not if you ever do anything that is against the bible.
Daniel: Show me where the Bible says that.
Bashstreet: This is what old law is. Law of Moses. And everyone who follows law of Moses will be be dead. Show what? That you do something against the bible?
Daniel: Show me where the Bible says someone doesn't follow the Bible who has ever sinned.
Bashstreet: No it was your claim . You claimed "if you are saying or doing something that goes against the Bible, I know you are not saved" And then admitted you also have done something against the bible. So how YOU can claim you know who is saved by standards that they do not follow bible when you do not. That is logical fallacy. By the way, people who claim to be prophets are proven wrong as to be stoned to death by old testament standards. :/
Daniel:Prophet doesn't mean strictly predicting future events.And you can try to prove me wrong with scripture if you'd like.
Bashstreet: Any case. There is nothing wrong trying to find your own way to serve lord but I think it is best to leave judgments of who is saved and not to God. Anyone who starts claiming he or she has right to condemn someone as "unsaved" or "saved" is in danger of wrath of God.
Daniel: And like I said, I repent of the sin I have done. I know someone is not saved if they do not repent.
Bashstreet: But they might be saved that is our job as Christian. To be tool of God to save others when he wishes so.
Daniel: Saved and unsaved is not a final state. I am not making a final judgement.vi
Bashstreet: And be careful on your condemnation very careful.
Daniel: For example, you are not saved right now, because you believe lies and speak against scripture. I hope that God will save you, otherwise He will destroy you forever in the lake of fire.
Bashstreet: You do not make such decisions. God do your condemnation of me is nothing to me or God. Best be careful. It is not Good idea to [anger] my father in haven.
Daniel: Your father is the devil.vii
Bashstreet: Best not blaspheme the holy spirit.
Daniel: Have I?
Bashstreet: Sorry, I have very little interest listening people who go around telling others they are saved and others are going to burn in hell without knowing anything about others.
Darwin: Actually, we are according to the world's idea of a cult and Joshua is our cult leader. We are the "sect" (cult, if you will) that is "spoken against everywhere." (Acts 28:22)
Darwin: Six (or more) horses. There are three plural sets of different colored horses, but no more specifics on the exact number.
- Titus 1:
5 For this reason I left you in Crete, that you should set in order the things that are lacking, and appoint elders in every city as I commanded you—
Darwin: No, a prophet is a seer. 1 Samuel 9:
9 (Formerly in Israel, when a man went to inquire of God, he spoke thus: “Come, let us go to the seer”; for he who is now called a prophet was formerly called a seer.)
He sees things from God, visions, etc. In other words, God communicates to a prophet. Numbers 12:
6 Then He said,
“Hear now My words:
If there is a prophet among you,
I, the Lord, make Myself known to him in a vision;
I speak to him in a dream.Anyone can prophesy (speak God's Word). But, not everyone is a prophet. 1 Corinthians 14:
31 For you can all prophesy one by one, that all may learn and all may be encouraged.
1 Corinthians 12:
29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Are all workers of miracles?
All rhetorical "no."
- I think this "no" is in response to my "to judge fruit is to judge salvation." I think he started typing this answer out and didn't finish until after my question, "is a false prophet saved?" ↩
Darwin: It would have been good to ask him if he believed a false prophet is saved (now) while they are living unrepentantly as a false prophet.
Daniel: Yeah, I was having a hard time with the semantics of saved.
Darwin: That's a common misunderstanding. It is often taken that we are making a final judgment when we are saying someone is presently lost. Interesting though, the way God talks on this subject. He simply says to the wicked, "`You shall surely die" (Ezekiel 3:18; 33:8, 14). It sounds very final and without hope. Yet, this is how God warns. And if in response the wicked repents, God saves them and they don't die. Ezekiel 33:
14 Again, when I say to the wicked, ‘You shall surely die,’ if he turns from his sin and does what is lawful and right, 15 if the wicked restores the pledge, gives back what he has stolen, and walks in the statutes of life without committing iniquity, he shall surely live; he shall not die.
So, it is not wrong to speak the same way as God speaks. We can tell the wicked, "You shall surely perish."
- John 8:
44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.