Daniel P. Barron

You walk as close to God as you want.

January 17, 2019

This log has been modified for spelling and formatting.

Forest Tower: Hey

Daniel: Yes, hello.

Forest Tower: You can chat with me here since you got silenced.

Daniel: http://atruechurch.info/masturbation.htmli

Forest Tower: You are a religious christian?

Daniel: Yes, I believe the entire Bible.

Forest Tower: (NASB) Galatians 5:

19ii Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality,

How do you explain that? Masturbation is definitely sensual.

Daniel: NKJViii says adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness

Forest Tower: (ESV) Romans 13:

13iv Let us walk properly as in the daytime, not in orgies and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and sensuality, not in quarreling and jealousy.

Sensuality is a theme amongst the bible; masturbation is definitely sensual. So.. it's clearly a work of the flesh. Which is opposed to the Spirit. I can show you plenty of other verses that prove this but i don't think showing you the verses is gonna help. Plus i don't hit people with the Bible. lol

One more: (ESV) Galatians 5:

24v And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires

Alright man God bless, hope you get a victory over the flesh in every area of your life. Talk to you later.

Daniel: Sex with your wife is sensual, and that's clearly not wrong.

Forest Tower: Who said that? Of course sensuality is a work of the flesh regardless if she is your wife or not, that's why the Bible teaches you to spend time apart so that they don't fall into lustful sensuality because marriage is supposed be about love not sensual desire fulfillment. Now I don't think you can have a pure relationship where love trumps sensuality when it's masturbation, dude. God also says don't pervert the marriage bed too, for your information.

Daniel: The Bible says the bed of marriage is undefiled.vi

Forest Tower: Exactly, pure.. and the works of the flesh are not pure.

Daniel: So then this is not proof that masturbation is wrong.

Forest Tower: Indeed it is saying that masturbation is not pure, which makes it a work of the flesh, which is against the Spirit.

Daniel: Where does it say that?

Forest Tower: When they used the word undefiled and also the words flesh desires.

Daniel: Nothing defiles the marriage bed.

Forest Tower: We can get into that if you want but just so you know, you aren't married to your hand.

So if the marriage bed is supposed to be kept pure, which means opposite of the works of the flesh then imagine what you and your unmarried hand are getting into. Works of the flesh..

Daniel: That isn't the point.

Forest Tower: It is the point; you are hanging onto just one translation and not putting the context together.

Daniel: Masturbation isn't what you call sensual, and neither is sex with a wife.

Forest Tower: Do you think masturbation is a desire of the flesh? Or is it a spiritual thing from God? Holy and pure? (KJV) Jude 1:

19vii "These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit."

(KJV) James 3:

15viii This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.

Daniel: It doesn't say masturbation, or that it is wrong.

Forest Tower: There is no right and wrong for the believer; there is only love, but walking in the flesh, which masturbation is because it is sensual, and a desire of the flesh, just hinders your relationship with God. You can still have a good relationship, but it wont be the best that it could be if you practiced holiness, and were more aligned with the Spirit; instead of being aligned with the flesh.

Jesus also did not get married as an example; nor did He ever say masturbation was holy and good. So your logic isn't solid. It's your life; I'm not judging you, but to spare you some embarrassment: there's no need to be an advocate in public for masturbation. Especially in a spiritual environment. lol

Well good luck to you sir. You'll figure it out or not, but I have done justice by the KJV as well. See ya.

Daniel: Sorry I've been having to answer a lot of questions.ix

Forest Tower: No worries man I don't want you to think I'm attacking you or judging you; I'm just putting information out there.

Daniel: Well, judging is believing and this is a spiritual war. I am not offended anyway.

Forest Tower: It's your life, salvation is a personal thing.

Daniel: Do you agree that sex with a wife is also "sensual" ?

Forest Tower: Yes, but I cant speak for everyone who is married who through the grace of God's love have overcome the lust of marital sex. Those would be very spiritually mature marriages.

Daniel: It isn't wrong to want to have sex with your wife. In fact, nothing defiles the bed of marriage.

Forest Tower: It's not about right and wrong, it's about being closer to God or further away. The man who gets married is not as close to God as the virgin, because their desires aren't the same.

Daniel: You are either saved or you aren't. Where does the Bible say that. It says that it is better not to marry, sure; but it doesn't make you less saved. And it also says that a man who finds a wife finds a good thing.x

Forest Tower: (KJV) 1 Corinthians 7:

32xi I want you to be free from concern. The unmarried man is concerned about the work of the Lord, how he can please the Lord. 33 But the married man is concerned about the affairs of this world, how he can please his wife, 34 and his interests are divided.

It also states that the circumstance that you were called is the one you should stay in. So if you were called single don't look for a wife. If you were married don't look to be single.xii

Daniel: Right, but still it is not wrong to marry.

Forest Tower: I never said it was.

Daniel: If God makes you fall in love.

Forest Tower: Back to verse 32. Divided interests... Not that it's wrong, but its not as good as a holy life like Jesus lived: celibate.

(KJV) 1 John 2:

15xiii Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

So you see the married woman cares for the things of the world.

Daniel: Yes these things are right, what was the point though? None of this means it is wrong to masturbate. In fact, masturbation helps you stay focused on preaching the Gospel.

Forest Tower: I already asked you and you did not answer.. do you think masturbation is a holy spiritual thing or a flesh desire?

Daniel: It relates to the flesh.

Forest Tower: So there you have it son.

Daniel: That doesn't mean it is wrong to do!

Forest Tower: Listen no one is talking about right or wrong but you. I'm talking about being as close to God as possible in this life.

Daniel: I had people telling me it is wrong to masturbate. That is a very common lie.

Forest Tower: Right and wrong isn't the issue I'm talking about with you; I only care to share information regarding masturbation being related to the flesh and how the Bible says the flesh is opposed to the Spirit and not to walk after the flesh. I just want you to know the information and make your own choice. You walk as close to God as you want. That is all I'm saying.

Daniel: I masturbate so that i can focus more on contending for the faith. Because my flesh lusts, and if i don't get release, it will lust more to the point that it is distracting.

Forest Tower: Whatever your reasoning it's none of my business you yourself admit its of the flesh. I just wanted you to see that.

Daniel: Going to the bathroom to relieve myself is of the flesh; should I not do that? That's time I could have spent preaching!

Forest Tower: Are you having sexual thought while taking a poop or taking a piss? Are you getting pleasure from a sexual mind set?

Daniel: Sexual thought isn't necessarily wrong. And my point was, going pee is a flesh thing: sexual or not.

Forest Tower: It is because its temptation and the Bible says to flee from it; the believer should have a clear conscience focused on things above. Not on the body/flesh.

Daniel: If you have a sexual thought about your wife, you haven't done wrong.

Forest Tower: But if you act on it lustfully or even accept that lustful thought and desire her flesh then it's walking in the flesh. Which is opposed to walking in the Spirit. For this reason Jesus did not marry.

Daniel: Christ is too married!

Forest Tower: He is Lord over the flesh sir.

Daniel: God is married to the church, and to Israel.

Forest Tower: Spiritual marriage. No martial sex. No flesh involved. We are called to be like Jesus.

Daniel: God has flesh.

Forest Tower: Not like how ever you want. Just cause we have flesh doesn't mean we should walk in it. We are souls; not bodies.

Daniel: I think you are trying to get around the fact that you think masturbation is wrong.

Forest Tower: You are the one who seems to be stuck on right and wrong for some reason.

Daniel: http://atruechurch.info/masturbation.html

Forest Tower: I'm talking about how to not walk in the flesh to get closer to the Spirit.

Daniel: Okay well check out that article, or don't.

Forest Tower: I'll pass but it was a good talk.

Daniel: Not really.

Forest Tower: Glad you now know masturbation is of the flesh. Right or wrong how ever your mind wants to sort things, just know its of the flesh.

What would Jesus do,xiv just ask yourself that next time lol before you masterbatexv or think about having sex with anyone.

  1. I had brought up in a public chat that masturbation is not wrong, and I was silenced from being able to continue.
  2. Galatians 5:
    19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness,

  3. New King James Version (of the Bible).
  4. Romans 13:
    13 Let us walk properly, as in the day, not in revelry and drunkenness, not in lewdness and lust, not in strife and envy.

  5. Galatians 5:
    24 And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

  6. Hebrews 13:
    4 Marriage is honorable among all, and the bed undefiled; but fornicators and adulterers God will judge.

  7. Jude 1:
    19 These are sensual persons, who cause divisions, not having the Spirit.

  8. James 3:
    15 This wisdom does not descend from above, but is earthly, sensual, demonic.

  9. In other chats. I got bombarded with messages before and after getting silenced.
  10. Proverbs 18:
    22 He who finds a wife finds a good thing,
    And obtains favor from the Lord.

  11. 1 Corinthians 7:
    32 But I want you to be without care. He who is unmarried cares for the things of the Lord—how he may please the Lord. 33 But he who is married cares about the things of the world—how he may please his wife. 34 There is a difference between a wife and a virgin. The unmarried woman cares about the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and in spirit. But she who is married cares about the things of the world—how she may please her husband.

  12. 1 Corinthians 7:
    25 Now concerning virgins: I have no commandment from the Lord; yet I give judgment as one whom the Lord in His mercy has made trustworthy. 26 I suppose therefore that this is good because of the present distress—that it is good for a man to remain as he is: 27 Are you bound to a wife? Do not seek to be loosed. Are you loosed from a wife? Do not seek a wife. 28 But even if you do marry, you have not sinned; and if a virgin marries, she has not sinned. Nevertheless such will have trouble in the flesh, but I would spare you.

  13. 1 John 2:
    15 Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For all that is in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—is not of the Father but is of the world.

  14. Darwin: "What would Jesus do" is such a farce. If it doesn't say, we shouldn't speculate what He would do (Pro 30:5-6).
  15. This is how he spelled the word through the entire conversation. I don't know if it was intentional or out of ignorance.

6 Responses

  1. Ubo: Daniel, the masturbation article is very interesting actually. My gut says that its unambiguously fornication, but I don't think I will have to cite the passages against trusting the heart of men in company like this.
    yaakov117: How would one masturbate without being lustful?
    Daniel: By not looking at pornography or thinking about someone who isn't your wife?
    yaakov117: People masturbate to their wife? Wow.
    Daniel: It wouldn't be wrong, and what if they are away from home for a while?
    yaakov117: Hmm, I don't know. Not gonna argue about it. I don't see how it could possibly be productive to masturbate.

  2. ConnorTheCrusader: Definitely hard to see how masturbation would be okay with God. Whether in Masturbation itself is wrong, lust most certainly is, and masturbation is almost entirely comprised of lust.
    Daniel: It doesn't have to be.
    ConnorTheCrusader: What do you think of when you masturbate.
    Daniel: I don't necessarily think of anything; it just feels good.
    ConnorTheCrusader: Anytime I ever did it I was thinking of something even when trying not to think of something at all so therefore at the very least it was sinful to me and in that respect millions of others. It’s also hard to see how masturbation would fit into God’s design for sex.
    Daniel: Just because it wasn't good for you doesn't mean it can't be good for others. And "God's design" is that we are better off not getting married, yet we still have the urge to have sex; masturbation reduces that urge.
    ConnorTheCrusader: God designs sexual organs to be used for sex between husband and wife. If you masturbate your certainty not using your organs for the intent God created it in a sexual context. Just because you have an urge to do something doesn’t mean you give into something to nullify the urge. That’s just my viewpoint though I would love to hear what everyone else thinks about this.
    Daniel: Show me where the Bible says what you just said.
    ConnorTheCrusader: Like i just said that’s just my viewpoint show me evidence in the Bible that says masturbation is okay. There is not a clear cut answer specifically talking about masturbation.
    Daniel: If it doesn't say it's wrong, we shouldn't speculate otherwise.
    ConnorTheCrusader: Is there any way you can honor God with masturbation?
    Daniel: He doesn't forbid it, so I don't see why not.
    ConnorTheCrusader: Even if he doesn’t forbid something do you really believe something is the right thing to do? ““I have the right to do anything,” you say—but not everything is beneficial. “I have the right to do anything”—but not everything is constructive.” 1 Corinthians‬ ‭10:23‬ ‭NIV‬‬
    Daniel: 1 Corinthians 6:12 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not helpful. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.
    Daniel: I have described how it can be helpful.
    ConnorTheCrusader: What you’ve described is someone using something not of God to nullify an urge which is extremely dangerous. Prayer to God of patience and peace is just a much better way of doing things man and that goes for everything.
    Daniel: You say it is "not of God" with no evidence from scripture.

  3. requiemzz

    Masterbation can definitely be wrong just like anything else can be wrong. If you are sitting around allday looking at porn and masterbating then I would say thats clearly wrong. You also have to look at the way the human body is designed try explaining why men have dreams where they emit seamen while they sleep. You cant help that. Everyone knows in their own heart what is right and wrong.

  4. [...] Have we spoken on here before, Daniel? Daniel: I don't think so. Do you believe that it is wrong to masturbate? VirtualPreacher: 1. The phrase "there is no law against love" is not in the bible to my [...]

  5. [...] It's not wrong to masturbate, provided that you aren't looking at pornography or thinking about a woman who isn't your [...]

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