Daniel P. Barron

Having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, forbidding to marry.

Sunday, August 18, 2019

This is a continuation of a previous article. This log has been modified for formatting and spelling, hyperlinks have been added, and it has been reviewed by Darwin Fish.

MacGyver_BE: When I teach I always joke: Do you know why Eternity will be so long? So God can correct our doctrines in time... :p All of above? :p I come from a Presbyterian background but I'm now in a Evangelical church, borderline Pentecostal. :p
luke-jr: MacGyver_BE, Catholicism is 100% perfect, because it is what Christ Himself taught.
MacGyver_BE: I'll not get into the debate here, but, no, you are not 100% perfect...
BillyHW: luke-jr, have you ever heard of foreplay? Sometimes you gotta ease into things.
MacGyver_BE: :)
luke-jr: MacGyver_BE, I never claimed I was. And no, doctrines are not opinions.
MacGyver_BE: Let me rephrase it: I'll not get into the debate here, but, no, Catholicism is not 100% perfect...
luke-jr: Yes, it is.
MacGyver_BE: No, it is not. Indulgences, for one.
luke-jr: Nothing wrong about indulgences.
MacGyver_BE: Oh boy...
Daniel:

MacGyver_BE: One simple question: You claim to be right and all of the other 99% Theologians in the world are all wrong... You need to have irrefutable proof before you go on this... Do you?

Yes, see our website, we have proof from scripture that most churches lead to hell.
luke-jr: If God can remit the infinite penalty of sin, it's only obvious He can offer remission of the temporal penalty.
MacGyver_BE: Bible verse please?
luke-jr: If Catholicism isn't perfect, the Bible is suspect.
MacGyver_BE: Why?
luke-jr: The only reason to believe the Bible is perfect, is because Catholicism teaches it is. Jesus did not write or endorse the Bible. Jesus established the Catholic Church and gave it the doctrines of Catholicism to teach.
Daniel: I appreciate that you are talking about a different Catholicism than the one taught by the Vatican, but you are also wrong and headed to hell.
luke-jr: The Catholic Church wrote the New Testament and defined the books of the Old Testament. Daniel, no, Catholicism is the only way God established to *avoid* Hell.
Daniel: Except what you call Catholicism contradicts what you call the Bible.
luke-jr: Daniel: No, it doesn't.
Daniel: Then why do you think it's wrong for a man to have multiple wives?
BillyHW: Oh my, you're a polygamist, Daniel? :O
Daniel: Polygynist, yes, in the sense that I believe it is not wrong to do so, and not in the sense that I have any wives.
luke-jr: Daniel, the same reason it's wrong (and impossible) to divorce.
MacGyver_BE: luke-jr, no, the Bible is perfect because God is powerful enough to keep His Word preserved. Because God used the Early Church Fathers (way before it became the official religion of the Roman Empire) to preserve and copy His Word so we can see them today...
BillyHW: That's perverted Daniel .
Daniel: luke-jr, the scripture you are referring to never says it's wrong to marry more than one.
luke-jr: MacGyver_BE, the only reason to believe the Bible is God's word, is because the Catholic Church says so.
Daniel: BillyHW, you call king David a pervert.
luke-jr: MacGyver_BE, God Himself only directly guaranteed His Church, not written books.
BillyHW: Yes. King David was a pervert.
Daniel: No he wasn't.
luke-jr: MacGyver_BE, why do you think God isn't powerful enough to keep His Church preserved?
Daniel: The Bible says he was righteous in all that he did and never turned from the commandments of God in all his life. (except in one matter)
luke-jr: Daniel, the commandments at that time allowed for polygamy and divorce. They do not today.
Daniel: Christ explained that divorce was allowed because of the hardness of their hearts and that from the beginning it was not so.
MacGyver_BE: First: No, it because the Holy Spirit, that dwell in the life of every believer, testify in our hearts that His Word is true...
Daniel: He does not say the same about polygyny.
luke-jr: MacGyver_BE, the Holy Ghost guides the Catholic Church, not individuals generally.
BillyHW: How many wives are you planning on, Daniel?
Daniel: BillyHW, I'm not planning on any.
BillyHW: Making yourself a eunuch for the kingdom then?
luke-jr: MacGyver_BE, there is no such testimony specially for the Bible.
Daniel: If I'm married and another woman who believes falls in love with me, why should I deny her?
BillyHW: Good point Daniel.
luke-jr: Daniel, infatuation is not a good basis for marriage in the first place.i
Daniel: Yes it is.
BillyHW: How many wives does Pope Darwin have, Daniel?
luke-jr facepalms
Daniel: BillyHW, Darwin has one wife. luke-jr, it's better to marry than to burn.ii
luke-jr: Daniel, one wife makes a marriage.
Daniel: Yes, but the Bible doesn't forbid multiple marriages.
luke-jr: The Bible isn't a rule book. God forbids it.iii
Daniel: Yes it is.
BillyHW: Daniel, will you let your wives marry other men?
Daniel: BillyHW, no!
BillyHW: I didn't think so. I mean, that's just crazy ain't it?
Daniel: It's against the Bible.
MacGyver_BE: Second, Jesus build "His" church, not the "Catholic" church... The "Catholic" church as we know came to life during the Roman Empire, and little by little they departed from the Truth. Even before the reform, there were people already disagreeing with the way the "Church" was acting... Later on, came the Reform and the post-reform, and, to be sincere, the Catholic Church also changed and became more biblical...
luke-jr: Daniel, if polygamy is okay, why is divorce and remarriage adultery?iv
Daniel: luke-jr, because of the divorce, not the marriage.
luke-jr: MacGyver_BE, the Catholic Church is exclusively Christ's Church. Catholicism has never changed.
Daniel: Although divorce without remarriage is not adultery.v
luke-jr: Daniel, that makes no sense.
Daniel: And it explains that the two can rejoin if they didn't marry others.vi
MacGyver_BE: Well, then we don't have anything else to discuss... If you believe in this "dogma", what else can I say but: Follow Jesus and have a blessed life...
luke-jr: Daniel, stop trying to twist the Bible.
Daniel: You are the one twisting it. I'm taking it literally.
luke-jr: MacGyver_BE, denial of this dogma is damning.
luke-jr: Daniel, no, you're twisting it completely.
Daniel: "x + y = z" doesn't mean that x = z
BillyHW: :/
luke-jr: Daniel, wake up, you're damning yourself.
Daniel: You wake up. Prove me wrong with scripture.
MacGyver_BE: .john 3:16
ljrbot: John 3:16 -- For God so loved the world, as to give his only begotten Son: that whosoever believeth in him may not perish, but may have life everlasting.
MacGyver_BE: I believe, therefore, I hope to see you in Heaven.
luke-jr: Daniel, if you put aside Catholicism, there is no Scripture. If Catholicism is false, Jesus was a fraud.
Daniel: That is a lie.
luke-jr: No, you.
Daniel: Christ is the rock which He spoke of building the Church on.vii Not peter.viii
luke-jr: Daniel, stop twisting Scripture. The entire first generation of Christians recognized the papacy.
Daniel: Is that recorded in the Bible?
luke-jr: Implicitly.
MacGyver_BE: So, why the Pope is not married?
Daniel: Because Catholics pervert scripture and are themselves perverts.ix
luke-jr: MacGyver_BE, some popes were. Daniel, celibacy is not perverse.
Daniel: It's perverse to say that one *must* be celibate.
luke-jr: Daniel, nobody says that.
Daniel: Catholics say that priests must be celibate. The Bible says that church leaders must have exactly one wife.x
luke-jr: Those who choose to be celibate are eligible to become priests;xi but they have the choice. Daniel, no, you're twisting it again.
Daniel: Yes, you duplicitously call it a choice.
luke-jr: Nothing duplicitous about it. They DO have a choice.
Daniel: Such a qualification is not found in the Bible. And in fact contradicts the Bible.
luke-jr: No, it doesn't.
Daniel: So the Bible doesn't say a church leader must have exactly one wife?
luke-jr: It only contradicts your perverted twisting of the Bible. Daniel, no, it doesn't. It says at most one wife. And even that was a discipline, which the Church can change. Many of the early bishops did not have any wife.
Daniel: 1 Timothy 3:

1 This is a faithful saying: If a man desires the position of a bishop, he desires a good work. 2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach;

ljrbot: 1 Timothy 3:1 -- A faithful saying: If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth good work.
luke-jr: St. Peter himself, had no wifexii for his entire ministry. Daniel, you twist it by adding "exactly."
MacGyver_BE: .mat 8:14
ljrbot: Matthew 8:14 -- And when Jesus was come into Peter's house, he saw his wife's mother lying, and sick of a fever;
MacGyver_BE: He was married.
Daniel: Okay, let's say it's fuzzy, and having more than one wife also means you have one wife (which is true, you have one wife if you have two) this still precludes the possibility of having zero wives. But as you said, this can be changed by your false church at any time.
luke-jr: MacGyver_BE, not during his ministry. His wife had passed away prior to.
MacGyver_BE: And, how do you know that?
luke-jr: Daniel, you continue to pervert it. MacGyver_BE, it is a matter of history.
Daniel: (extra-biblical history)
MacGyver_BE: So, it is correct to say that you cannot make Doctrine (nor dogmas) that are not based on Biblical Evidence... That is why the 'Catholic' church is not 100% correct. Sola Scriptura.
luke-jr: Daniel, it is also inferred in St. Peter's behavior as recorded in Scripture. MacGyver_BE, Sola scriptura is heresy.
MacGyver_BE: Sure... :D hahahahahahahahaaha.
luke-jr: What you say is NOT correct. Catholicism was revealed by Christ Himself, and came BEFORE Scripture.
Daniel: There is nothing before Scripture, for the Bible is God Himself.
luke-jr: Scripture is BASED ON Catholicism.
Daniel: Scripture which is God is not based on anything.
luke-jr: Daniel, that is nothing short of idolatry.
Daniel: It's what the Bible literally says.
luke-jr: No, it isn't.
Daniel: The Word of God was God in the beginning.
luke-jr: No, the Divine Word is God. It is not the Bible.
Daniel: All things are of Him to Him and through Him.xiii
ljrbot: John 1:1 -- In the beginning was the Word: and the Word was with God: and the Word was God.
MacGyver_BE: .John 1:1
ljrbot: John 1:1 -- In the beginning was the Word: and the Word was with God: and the Word was God.
MacGyver_BE: .John 1:2
ljrbot: John 1:2 -- The same was in the beginning with God.
MacGyver_BE: .John 1:14
Daniel: Matthew 4:4
ljrbot: John 1:14 -- And the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us (and we saw his glory, the glory as it were of the only begotten of the Father), full of grace and truth.
ljrbot: Matthew 4:4 -- Who answered and said: It is written, Not in bread alone doth man live, but in every word that proceedeth from the mouth of God.
luke-jr: None of this refers to the Bible.
MacGyver_BE: The Word became flesh: Jesus... and he testified that the Scriptures (Old Testament) are true... therefore He authenticate it...
luke-jr: MacGyver_BE, He testified to the authenticity of the seven books protestants remove too.
MacGyver_BE: No he didn't... first, they were already separate at the time of the LXX, second he never, NEVER quoted it.
luke-jr: Yes, He did.
MacGyver_BE: And he quote from every other book... Bible reference please...
luke-jr: https://www.scripturecatholic.com/deuterocanonical-books-new-testament/
MacGyver_BE: Sorry, not the Bible.
luke-jr: Yes it is.
MacGyver_BE: They aren't even recognized by the Catholic Church...
luke-jr: And again, sola scriptura is heresyxiv anyway, and we have no basis to accept the NT except by the Catholic Church; and without the NT, there is no support for the OT either. MacGyver_BE, yes, they are.
MacGyver_BE: They only recognize the Old Testament part... not New Testament.
luke-jr: What? The Catholic Church recognizes all seventy-three authentic books of Scripture. And the books' authenticity itself is derived from the Church's authority.
MacGyver_BE: Yes, the seven extra are in the OLD testament... not on the new... And those seven were never mentioned by Jesus... And they were not present at the time of the LXX. By the way, they are not present also in the Hebrew bible...
luke-jr: They were, I just gave you a whole list of citations.
Daniel:

MacGyver_BE: No he didn't... First, they were already separate at the time of the LXX, second he never, NEVER quoted it.

There are some extra-biblical texts quoted in the Bible, but that doesn't mean those texts are 100% true.
MacGyver_BE: Not for those... Daniel.
Daniel: http://atruechurch.info/apocrypha.html
MacGyver_BE: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_Bible#Books_of_the_Tanakh Anyway Guys, it was fun :p May the Holy Spirit guides you in to the Truth... Have a blessed weekend and don't forget to Celebrate Jesus, the reason for this all...
MacGyver_BE will be back :p
MacGyver_BE disappears in a cloud of smoke... No, wait, wrong window...


  1. Darwin: He turned your “falls in love” into “infatuation” (an intense but short-lived passion), instead of dealing with the issue of love. This is a distraction, and avoids the real issue. A woman can truly be in love with a married man, and what a breach of love and justice, as you pointed out, to deny her.

  2. 1 Corinthians 7:
    8 But I say to the unmarried and to the widows: It is good for them if they remain even as I am; 9 but if they cannot exercise self-control, let them marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion.


  3. Darwin: Interesting how they emphatically make this claim when such forbiddance by God is nowhere to be found.

  4. Luke 16:
    18 “Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced from her husband commits adultery.


  5. Darwin: Or, divorce (and remarriage) because of sexual immorality is not adultery (Matthew 19:9).

  6. 1 Corinthians 7:
    10 Now to the married I command, yet not I but the Lord: A wife is not to depart from her husband. 11 But even if she does depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband. And a husband is not to divorce his wife.

  7. Matthew 16:
    18 And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.


  8. Darwin: Christ is indeed the “cornerstone,” but it also says His church has “been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone” (Ephesians 2:20). Peter was one of the “apostles” upon which the church was built. As far as Matthew 16:18, “Peter” is Petros (masculine) in the Greek, and the “rock” upon which Christ said He would build is petra (feminine).

  9. 1 Timothy 4:
    1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 2 speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, 3 forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.

  10. 1 Timothy 3:
    2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach;

    1 Timothy 3:

    12 Let deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.

    Titus 1:

    5 For this reason I left you in Crete, that you should set in order the things that are lacking, and appoint elders in every city as I commanded you— 6 if a man is blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of dissipation or insubordination.


  11. Darwin: All believers are priests. “has made us kings and priests to His God and Father” (Revelation 1:6).


  12. Darwin: Do we have no right to take along a believing wife, as do also the other apostles, the brothers of the Lord, and Cephas [Peter]? Or is it only Barnabas and I who have no right to refrain from working? (1Corinthians 9:5-6)

  13. Romans 11:
    36 For of Him and through Him and to Him are all things, to whom be glory forever. Amen.


  14. Darwin: “All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work. (2 Timothy 3:16-17)

One Response

  1. [...] is a continuation of a previous article. This log has been modified for formatting and spelling, some lines have been removed for being [...]

Leave a Reply

Your words may be altered or altogether purged in accordance with my preference to abstain from publishing statements that may be unnecessarily offensive to other readers. Your criticism is welcome. Your name and website are optional. Some HTML tags are allowed.