Daniel P. Barron

For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.

Saturday, August 17, 2019 

Daniel: MacGyver_BE, check out http://atruechurch.info/ and don't go to hell like the rest of the world!
MacGyver_BE: .rom 8:1
ljrbot: Romans 8:1 -- There is now therefore no condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus, who walk not according to the flesh.
Daniel: Are you in Christ Joshua?
MacGyver_BE: I don't run the risk Daniel.
Daniel: Most self-described Christians are not in the truth.
MacGyver_BE: First, where do you see in the New Testament "Christ Joshua"? Not in the Greek...
Daniel: Yes the Greek says Joshua actually. Jesus is not a good translation.
MacGyver_BE: Ιησούς. I'm a Theologian... I know my Greek. ;) And my Hebrew, by the way.
Daniel: Okay, the author of the articles on our website also knows Greek. (and Hebrew and Aramaic)
MacGyver_BE: Well, he is wrong...
Daniel: Okay, then explain Acts 7:45 i and Hebrews 4:8 ii
ljrbot: Acts 7: 45 Which also our fathers receiving, brought in with Jesus, into the possession of the Gentiles: whom God drove out before the face of our fathers, unto the days of David, 45* _Jesus..._ That is Josue, so called in Greek.
Daniel: ^ That is talking about Joshua from the time of Moses. The KJV translators turned it into Jesus mistakenly. Because it is literally the same name.
MacGyver_BE: Ιησούς, it is a Greek form form for ישוע (Yeshua) which can be translated as Joshua, Osea, among others. Paul was a Jewish, Studied under Gamaliel and he NEVER, I mean NEVER used the Hebrew form... that is is enough for me.
Daniel: The point remains, that the prophet Joshua from the time of Moses is mentioned in the Greek, and it is the same name used for the Lord Christ.
MacGyver_BE: And no, it was not the KJ translator that "change" it... every single translation uses Jesus... this is a non-sense created to make more confusion on the mind of people.
Daniel: NKJV says Joshua.
BillyHW: Gimme that old time religion...
MacGyver_BE: Yes, BillyHW, please, when people where not blind and easy tossed by every wind of doctrine...
Daniel: Look it up for yourself, NKJV says Joshua in both of those examples I provided.
MacGyver_BE: There will be always those people that will put themselves above others, as they received a new revelation that 99% of all theologians dismissed as wrong, but still they insist... Man, that gets me mad.
BillyHW: Daniel why does the pronunciation matter to you?
Daniel: Do you have a scriptural rebuttal or is it going to be passive aggressive personal attacks from here on out? BillyHW, well I like to believe the Bible literally, and it does sorta say you need to know His name. iii
BillyHW: Do you take John 6 literally?
ljrbot: John 6:-1* -- Christ feeds five thousand with five loaves. He walks upon the sea and discourses of the bread of life.
Daniel: Yes.
MacGyver_BE: Let me spell that for you: Koine Greek name Ἰησοῦς‚ is (letter by letter) Iēsoûs... the I became J in the pronunciation of Latin languages, which influenced the Germanic Language (English)...
BillyHW: John 6:53-55?
ljrbot: John 6: 53 The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying: How can this man give us his flesh to eat? 54 Then Jesus said to them: Amen, amen, I say unto you: except you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you shall not have life in you. 54* _Except you eat and drink, etc..._ To receive the body and blood of Christ, is a divine precept, insinuated in this text; which the faithful fulfil, though they receive but in
Daniel: BillyHW, Christ goes on to explain that the things He said there are spiritual. The bread and wine are literally spiritually his flesh and blood. iv
BillyHW: Oh, so you mean it's literally a metaphor then.
MacGyver_BE: The beauty of the name "Jesus" is that each language can pronunciate it as its own...
Daniel: Okay, if you are going to call the Lord God "Jesus" you should also call the prophet from Moses' time the same.
MacGyver_BE: .phi 2:10-11
ljrbot: Philippians 2: 10 That in the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those that are in heaven, on earth, and under the earth: 11 And that every tongue should confess that the Lord Jesus Christ is in the glory of God the Father.
Daniel: But you are changing scripture to say that one is Joshua and the other is Jesus.
BillyHW: I appreciate that Anglicized Bibles distinguish between Judah, Judas, Jude. v It avoids a lot of confusion.
MacGyver_BE: You need to learn what transliteration is... Do you know that Hebrew don't have vowels? So, the pronunciation can very, as the same name יהושע can be pronounced differently... MY LAST ATTEMPT:

Yeshua (ישוע, with vowel pointing יֵשׁוּעַ – yēšūă‘ in Hebrew) was a common alternative form of the name יְהוֹשֻׁעַ ("Yehoshua" – Joshua) in later books of the Hebrew Bible and among Jews of the Second Temple period. The name corresponds to the Greek spelling Iesous, from which, through the Latin Iesus, comes the English spelling Jesus.[1][2]

The Hebrew spelling Yeshua (ישוע) appears in some later books of the Hebrew Bible. Once for Joshua the son of Nun, and 28 times for Joshua the High Priest and other priests called Jeshua – although these same priests are also given the spelling Joshua in 11 further instances in the books of Haggai and Zechariah. It differs from the usual Hebrew Bible spelling of Joshua (יְהוֹשֻׁעַ y'hoshuaʿ), found 218 times in the Hebrew Bible, in the absence of the consonant he ה and placement of the semivowel vav ו after, not before, the consonant shin ש. It also differs from the Hebrew spelling Yeshu (ישו) which is found in Ben Yehuda's dictionary and used in most secular contexts in Modern Hebrew to refer to Jesus of Nazareth, although the Hebrew spelling Yeshua (ישוע) is generally used in translations of the New Testament into Hebrew[3] and used by Hebrew speaking Christians in Israel. The name Yeshua is also used in Israelite Hebrew historical texts to refer to other Joshuas recorded in Greek texts such as Jesus ben Ananias and Jesus ben Sira.[4]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeshua Check the sources and see that this is not "made up" but rather years and years of study...
Daniel: I'm of course only talking about biblical Hebrew and the Holy Word of God, and not extra-biblical texts or modern Hebrew.
BillyHW: Daniel, what's the second book of the New Testament called?
MacGyver_BE: :)
Daniel: It seems like your digging has revealed that what I have said is true, and yet you think this debunks the claim.
MacGyver_BE: I saw that one coming...
BillyHW: As a matter of fact, Daniel, can you name all four Gospels for me?
Daniel: Is it not Matthew Mark Luke John?
BillyHW: Epic fail, Daniel.
Daniel: Interesting, I'll bring this up with Darwin. I'm not the Greek reader; it's possible I have those names wrong. vi
BillyHW: Is Darwin your pope or something?
Daniel: He's the guy in our church who can read Greek.
MacGyver_BE: Easy now, BillyHW. :) One simple question: You claim to be right and all of the other 99% Theologians in the world are all wrong... You need to have irrefutable proof before you go on this... Do you? Let me make it simple for you: No, you don't. All that you have are "uncertain" at best and plenty wrong at worst... You cannot make the case for a wrong pronunciation because each language will pronounce the name different, like Marco, Marcos, Markus, Mark, etc. Same for Jesus, Iesu, Yeshu, Isa, Jesu, etc. What matter is your RELATIONSHIP with Jesus, and that you believe that He died for your sins... And, at the third day He resurrected proving that He is the Son of God... That is the core of the Gospel...
BillyHW: I heard that Arabic Christians pronounce it Yesu, vs Arabic Muslims pronounce it Isa, possibly because Mohammed confused him with Esau.
MacGyver_BE: Yes, I have a friend who is Lebanese and she said the same. Isa because of Prophet Isaiah. That is what she said.
BillyHW: Hmmm, I think Esau makes more sense personally...but who knows. Sorry... I meant Ezra.
MacGyver_BE: That is a curve ball. :p
BillyHW: Yeah.

  1. NKJV Acts 7:

    45 which our fathers, having received it in turn, also brought with Joshua into the land possessed by the Gentiles, whom God drove out before the face of our fathers until the days of David,

    KJV Acts 7:

    45 Which also our fathers that came after brought in with Jesus into the possession of the Gentiles, whom God drave out before the face of our fathers, unto the days of David;

    Emphasis added. ^

  2. NKJV Hebrews 4:

    8 For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day.

    KJV Hebrews 4:

    8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.

    Emphasis added. ^

  3. Acts 2:

    21 And it shall come to pass
    That whoever calls on the name of the Lord
    Shall be saved.’


  4. John 6:

    61 When Jesus knew in Himself that His disciples complained about this, He said to them, “Does this offend you? 62 What then if you should see the Son of Man ascend where He was before? 63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.


  5. Darwin: Those are all the same name too.


  6. Darwin: Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, that's all correct. I don't know what he was trying to point out.


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