Daniel P. Barron

That One Catholic Girl: No one talks here anymore. Have y'all lost faith?

Daniel: Are you catholic?

That One Catholic Girl: I wanna say no and do some sarcastic response but I can't think of any currently but yes I am catholic.

Daniel: Catholicism leads to hell. Repent!

That One Catholic Girl: :rolling_eyes: No. The body and blood of Christ first off is more a metaphor type of thing. Polygamy really is stupid; you only need one person to love. Especially since people living longer now a days. Also question do other divisions of Christianity have nuns or monks? Or is it just Catholics?

Daniel: Stupid isn't the issue; is polygyny wicked? No. ⁱ Also, people live shorter lives than they used to.

Hunter8: Rose Beckett, ⁱⁱ It's been rough for me recently.
That One Catholic Girl: It's disgusting, to be honest. And a double standard. And people back in ancient times lived to maybe their 40s now people can live to a 100.

Daniel: Indeed it is a double standard, and it is a Biblical standard. And people in the Bible lived for hundreds of years; now we are lucky to live to 100.

bsm1379: What is a double standard?

Daniel: Polygyny: a man having multiple wives.

bsm1379: People in the times before Noah lived hundreds of years. Not after. Nowhere in the Bible is polygamy condoned. But the Bible does say God made marriage between a man and a woman. It may not be a sin per-se, but it is never condoned.

Daniel: Indeed one marriage is between one man and one woman, but the Bible doesn't say a man can't have more than one marriage. And it is literally condoned; David had many wives and was called righteous in all that he did. ⁱⁱⁱ

bsm1379: He also committed adultery. Just because he was a righteous man doesn't mean he was flawless.

Daniel: It says that was the one exception.

bsm1379: Where does it say that was the one exception? Daniel ^iv did not go his whole life sinning only once.

Daniel: 1 Kings 15:

5 because David did what was right in the eyes of the Lord, and had not turned aside from anything that He commanded him all the days of his life, except in the matter of Uriah the Hittite.

bsm1379: That sounds like it's saying he didn't go directly against God's orders except in the matter of Uriah.

Daniel: Right.. so then it wasn't going against God to have multiple wives.

bsm1379: Not against the Mosaic law no. That doesn't mean God likes it. Was it you who wrote the article about masturbation? I can't seem to find it now.

Daniel: Yes, here it is.

bsm1379: Thanks. (ESV) Titus 1:

5 ^v This is why I left you in Crete, so that you might put what remained into order, and appoint elders in every town as I directed you— 6 if anyone is above reproach, the husband of one wife, and his children are believers and not open to the charge of debauchery or insubordination.

Daniel: That verse doesn't say it's wrong to have multiple wives.

bsm1379: I didn't say it was wrong. I said it wasn't preferred.

Daniel: Being married at all isn't preferred. And yet an elder must have exactly one wife.

bsm1379: I don't believe the single life is preferred. And the point of him having one wife is to fulfill the requirement of being "above reproach". I think that if the single life were to be preferred, deacons, bishops, and elders wouldn't be expected to be married once. As in they would be expected to abstain entirely.
ysys9: Paul has a word about that.... He says it's better to not marry. I'm saying this as a married man.
bsm1379: I believe he is saying that in the context of marrying due to lust. Am I mistaken?

Daniel: 1 Corinthians 7:

25 Now concerning virgins: I have no commandment from the Lord; yet I give judgment as one whom the Lord in His mercy has made trustworthy. 26 I suppose therefore that this is good because of the present distress—that it is good for a man to remain as he is: 27 Are you bound to a wife? Do not seek to be loosed. Are you loosed from a wife? Do not seek a wife. 28 But even if you do marry, you have not sinned; and if a virgin marries, she has not sinned. Nevertheless such will have trouble in the flesh, but I would spare you.

ysys9: ^ He says that it's better to not marry at all but if you're going to be a degenerate you should marry instead of being sexually immoral. And almost no one sees marriage as a requirement for being an elder, just a lack of polyamorism. ^vi
bsm1379: Paul at the beginning of that passage said that was not from God and just his opinion.
ysys9: Sure but I agree with him.
bsm1379: That's fine. I don't have any qualms there. My point is simply is that it isn't a matter of preference from God.

Daniel: Marriage is indeed a requirement to be an elder, as is having at least two children all of whom must be saved. Speaking of God's preference, He is a polygynist. He is married to the church ^vii (which is multiple people) and also to Israel ^viii (which is also multiple people) ^ix

bsm1379: The only way you can come to that conclusion is by inferring it from the fact that God didn't explicitly say anything against it. ^x And the church is meant to be a single unified entity.

Daniel: Okay, but He's still married to both the Church and Israel.

bsm1379: Even if so, He's God. That's not necessarily saying it's okay for us to do the same thing. God sent a bear to attack kids who made fun of Elijah. ^xi That doesn't mean we should go slaughter kids.

Daniel: Be content in whatever you do. Be content in being single; be content in being married to one woman; be content in being married to multiple women.

bsm1379: I'm not saying it's necessarily against God. I'm only saying we can't claim to know with certainty that God likes it.

1. See our article on polygamy. ^
2. "That One Catholic Girl." ^
3. 
   

   Darwin: It would have been good to mention that God explicitly commanded David as king not to "multiply wives for himself" (Deut 17:17). And as you quoted, "David did what was right in the eyes of the Lord, and had not turned aside from anything that He commanded him all the days of his life" (1 Kings 15:5). Thus, God declares via David's example polygamy is "right in the eyes of the Lord." I also like Proverbs 18:22 "He who finds a wife finds a good thing, And obtains favor from the LORD."

    ^

4. Is this a typo? Did he mean to say "David" ? Did he mean me? Or did he mean the prophet? I don't know. ^
5. Titus 1:
   

   5 For this reason I left you in Crete, that you should set in order the things that are lacking, and appoint elders in every city as I commanded you— 6 if a man is blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of dissipation or insubordination.

    ^

6. Polyamory: "more than one loves/lovers." ^
7. Ephesians 5:
   

   25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her, 26 that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word, 27 that He might present her to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that she should be holy and without blemish. 28 So husbands ought to love their own wives as their own bodies; he who loves his wife loves himself. 29 For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as the Lord does the church. 30 For we are members of His body, of His flesh and of His bones. 31 “For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” 32 This is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church. 33 Nevertheless let each one of you in particular so love his own wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband.

    ^

8. Jeremiah 3:
   

   14 “Return, O backsliding children,” says the Lord; “for I am married to you. I will take you, one from a city and two from a family, and I will bring you to Zion.

    ^

9. 
   

   Darwin: God is also married to the New Jerusalem (Rev 21:9).

    ^

10. Yes! Exactly!!! If God doesn't explicitly forbid something, it's wrong for us to say it is wrong! ^
11. 2 Kings 2:
    

    23 Then he went up from there to Bethel; and as he was going up the road, some youths came from the city and mocked him, and said to him, “Go up, you baldhead! Go up, you baldhead!”

    24 So he turned around and looked at them, and pronounced a curse on them in the name of the Lord. And two female bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the youths.

     ^