Daniel: Transformers, angellle, check out http://atruechurch.info/ and don't go to hell like the rest of the world!
Sayorj: I think, 'advertisement' isn't allowed on this forum.
angellle: Daniel, I follow Jesus and His Word. I don't follow "a church." The road to hell will be lined with people who refused to follow Jesus...but instead followed some man made church organization.
Daniel: The Bible says you must fellow with believers if possible. And you think you are saved, but chances are you aren't; our site is useful in showing the things you probably don't believe.
angellle: The bible DOES NOT SAY to follow a church. The bible says fellowship ...:)
Daniel: I'm not saying you should go to whatever church is near you. Most churches lead to hell. And to fellow with believers is to attend church.
angellle: I don't "go to a church".. I am the temple where the Holy Spirit dwells. I am part of the church...the Bride of Christ.
Sayorj: No doubt - anyone promote immoralities and drugs-intoxicants i is false prophet - wolf in sheep-clothing.
Daniel: If you don't believe the whole Bible, you aren't a temple for the holy spirit.
angellle: I believe the whole bible.
Daniel: Do you believe God kills people?
matthieu: Poor protestants.
angellle: Daniel, show me a scripture.
Daniel: Well the site is useful for that, but okay.
angellle: If it's a scripture...I believe it.
Daniel: Deuteronomy 32:
39 ‘Now see that I, even I, am He,
And there is no God besides Me;
I kill and I make alive;
I wound and I heal;
Nor is there any who can deliver from My hand.1 Samuel 2:
6 “The Lord kills and makes alive;
He brings down to the grave and brings up.GrapeyGrape: Song of Moses. Hi.
angellle: ?kjv deut 32:39
pete-: Deu32:39 See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand. (KJV)
Moses: Hello.
Daniel: Hosea 6:
5 Therefore I have hewn them by the prophets,
I have slain them by the words of My mouth;
And your judgments are like light that goes forth.So then, yes?, you believe God kills?
angellle: ?kjv deut 32:35-38 ii
pete-: Deu32:35 To me belongeth vengeance, and recompence; their foot shall slide in due time: for the day of their calamity is at hand, and the things that shall come upon them make haste. (KJV)
pete-: Deu32:36 For the LORD shall judge his people, and repent himself for his servants, when he seeth that their power is gone, and there is none shut up, or left. (KJV)
pete-: Deu32:37 And he shall say, Where are their gods, their rock in whom they trusted, (KJV)
pete-: Deu32:38 Which did eat the fat of their sacrifices, and drank the wine of their drink offerings? let them rise up and help you, and be your protection. (KJV)
angellle: AMEN!
GrapeyGrape: Amen.
angellle: To all these scriptures~!
Daniel: So yes? God kills?
GrapeyGrape: Yes the Song of Moses the overcomers sing in the book of Revelations.
angellle: Daniel ... I sense you're trying to entrap me. So I'll abstain.
Daniel: It's not a trick question. Most false Christians deny that God kills. Even though scripture clearly says that He does kill.
angellle: I've already said amen to those scriptures.
Daniel: So then say God kills. God kills, and I know this because scripture says so.
catholic: iii God is author of life and he's also author of all death.
GrapeyGrape: So what is the point to say God kills. Hello there OliveTree. =)
Daniel: The point is many self-described Christians deny that God kills. And they go to hell for this. iv
GrapeyGrape: Oh why are you so quick for people to go to hell.
Daniel: Most people go to hell.
GrapeyGrape: There are Christians who don't read enough to know that.
Daniel: They have no excuse. v
Moses: Daniel, you're wrong.
GrapeyGrape: That doesn't mean they will go to hell.
Daniel: Yes it does.
Moses: None go to hell.
Daniel: Moses, that's a lie.
Moses: You will find it out one day.
GrapeyGrape: Daniel, some have different appetites than others.
Moses: Soon.
Daniel: GrapeyGrape, they won't admit that God kills even when shown scripture proving He does kill; that means they will surely perish because they do not consent to wholesome words. vi
OliveTree: Some arguments are just plain silly.
GrapeyGrape: Well anyone who reads in volume understands this. God is control period.
Daniel: Understands what?
GrapeyGrape: That God is control of life and death.
Daniel: Just say it, God kills.
Sayorj: No, it doesn't say that.
Daniel: The Bible says it, why can't you or angellle say it?
GrapeyGrape: Daniel, why does this make you happy??
Sayorj: Possibly you don't know 'Hebrew' therefore don't understand what's said.
Daniel: See, Sayorj is an example like I have described, a false christian who will go to hell.
Sayorj: Amit- stands for death - not to kill.
Moses: Daniel, God does not kill.
Daniel: GrapeyGrape, I am contending for the faith. vii
GrapeyGrape: God uses evil against his children then punishes the evil ones because they enjoyed it.
Sayorj: Kill is an act - death is a process. An stage of life.
Daniel: The Bible literally says He kills.
catholic: ...God is author of life and hes also author of all death.
Sayorj: It doesn't.
GrapeyGrape: Yes it does say that.
catholic: It's all Gods design.
Moses: Daniel, God didn't write bible.
Sayorj: No, GrapeyGrape, it doesn't.
Moses: People did.
Sayorj: God kill is false translation.
Daniel: Moses, Sayorj, angellle, http://atruechurch.info/lordkills.html
Sayorj: lol
GrapeyGrape: Yes, many didn't make it in the wilderness.
Sayorj: I don't need that, Daniel, but thanks.
Moses: Daniel, God didn't write bible people did.
Daniel: God *is* the Bible.
Moses: Nope.
Sayorj: Please focus. ?kjv deu 32:39
pete-: Deu32:39 See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand. (KJV)
Sayorj: That's false translation.
GrapeyGrape: He even lets some know as in the old testament when it was going to happen. Moses sons were killed.
matthieu: God created man with immortality and death entered the world thru man sin.
Daniel: It is not a bad translation.
catholic: Of course God language is different so to know God, man has to use human language to explain God.
Daniel: Revelation 2:
23 I will kill her children with death, and all the churches shall know that I am He who searches the minds and hearts. And I will give to each one of you according to your works.
Moses: Daniel, do you know why God does not kill? Or would you like to know why no person go to hell? viii
matthieu: The related quality with that original immortality is fortitude.
GrapeyGrape: And who is death. But a tool used to do so.
Daniel: Moses, most people do go to hell and you are going with them.
Sayorj:
pete-: Deu32:39 See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive;False translation - it should be 'I cause death ix and life.' A'mit=death - Not kill.
matthieu: "Fortitude is the moral virtue that ensures firmness in difficulties and constancy in the pursuit of the good. It strengthens the resolve to resist temptations and to overcome obstacles in the moral life. The virtue of fortitude enables one to conquer fear, even fear of death, and to face trials and persecutions. It disposes one even to renounce and sacrifice his life in defense of a just cause."
Daniel: Indeed God causes death, and He also kills.
Sayorj: lol No, he don't kill.
matthieu: Death is nothing when you have life.
Daniel: We have examples in our article.
angellle: Daniel... stop judging other people. What you're doing is evil. Stop it.
Sayorj: There is huge difference, by the way, causing-death and killing someone.
angellle: Daniel, I got news for you .. YOU'RE NOT GOD.
Daniel:
The Lord killed Aaron's sons, Nadab and Abihu, for worshipping Him in the wrong way (Leviticus 10:1 x). The Lord opened up the earth and swallowed alive Korah and his company (Numbers 16:30-33 xi). The Lord killed Nabal (1 Samuel 25:38 xii). The Lord struck Uzzah dead when he touched the ark (2 Samuel 6:1-7 xiii). The Lord killed Jeroboam (2 Chronicles 13:20 xiv). The Lord killed Jehoram (2 Chronicles 21:18-19 xv). And, when He so pleases (Psalm 115:3 xvi), the Lord not only desires to kill, but prevents any circumstance that would stand in the way of His killing.
matthieu: Poor protestants.
Sayorj: One example of your article we just seen - it only abuses translations.
Daniel: Angellle, judging is believing.
angellle: Daniel, you're trying to persuade people into looking at a church ...whose people condemns other people to hell.
Daniel: We warn people of hell.
angellle: NOBODY should want to go to your church URL. You're condemning them to hell. Stop it. You're making a fool of yourself.
Daniel: I happily check out other people's church websites, for the purpose of finding false beliefs on them. You do not love me if you won't at least check it out to say why we are wrong.
Moses: Bible was written by people for the living. God does not kill because he does not exist. People don't go to hell because of there's no hell.
Daniel: Wow, didn't see that one coming. xvii
Moses: Even for the most evil people. They go there where all animals and living things go. Back to earth.
GrapeyGrape: Daniel, I don't think telling people they are going to hell because they are not knowledgeable about what is written is up to you to say.
GrapeyGrape: Welcome back, Viljami. =)
Sayorj: God sees people as they see Him. :o)
GrapeyGrape: Some are still sleeping and haven't been awakened yet.
Daniel: GrapeyGrape, it is up to me to say, and they have no excuse. Especially when I show them and they still deny.
GrapeyGrape: How can you say they don't have an excuse.
Daniel: The Bible says nobody has an excuse. .rom 1:20
Barnabas: KJV Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: [so...: or, that they may be]
Viljami: Thank you.
matthieu: "Lord Jesus Christ, Son of the Father, send now Your Spirit over the earth. Let the Holy Spirit live in the hearts of all nations, that they may be preserved from degeneration, disaster and war. May the Lady of All Nations, who once was Mary, be our Advocate. Amen."
GrapeyGrape: Well when is the time period of being CLEARLY seen as we see through the glass darkly now and we walk by faith.
angellle: Amen...faith is the substance of things not seen.
GrapeyGrape: .rom 1 1
Barnabas: KJV Romans 1:1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,
angellle: Hebrews 11:
1 xviii Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
GrapeyGrape: Nice, angelle.
Sayorj: All can't be that blind. ;o)
matthieu: http://www.mitchelstownparish.ie/wpimages/wpbefd274b_05.jpg
angellle: The people are blinded by their refusal of Jesus being our Savior.
GrapeyGrape: Well we don't know everything yet. There is more learning.
Daniel: But when I show scripture and you deny it, what then?
GrapeyGrape: Well, Daniel, no offense but are you God.
matthieu: "You, nations of this time, know that you are under the protection of the Lady of All Nations, invoke her as Advocate; ask her to stave off all disasters. Ask her to banish degeneration from this world. From degeneration comes disaster. From degeneration comes war. Through my prayer you shall ask that this be staved off from the world. You do not know how great and how important this prayer is before God." (May 31, 1955)
Sayorj: Drink some-water and relax, Daniel, and if you've time try to learn Hebrew for hebrew-references.
Daniel: Feel free to show scripture to prove me wrong.
Sayorj: And Aramiac for Aramaic.
GrapeyGrape: I didn't deny it .. and if some deny it then they are not of the same spirit at this time.
Sayorj: :o)
Daniel: The author of our website reads Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic.
Moses: There was time thousands of years in human history when humans lived without any kind of religion and they haven't suffered because of it.
Sayorj: I don't need scriptures to show you that you're wrong. :o)
Daniel: Yes, you do.
GrapeyGrape: Daniel, talk about throwing the anchor in what ever happened to fishing. lol
Sayorj: The verses you quoted as 'killing-God' proven false. So learn Hebrew.
Daniel: GrapeyGrape, if they aren't of the same spirit, they aren't saved!
angellle: Romans 11:
7 xix What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
GrapeyGrape: You don't want to crush the young tender plant do you.
Moses: Fact is that no matter how many verses of the bible will you quote.
GrapeyGrape: For their own good.
Moses: No matter how many times will you go to church and pray.
Daniel: GrapeyGrape, I cannot take the elect out of God's hand. xx
Moses: You will not go to heaven.
GrapeyGrape: Right.
Moses: Nor hell.
GrapeyGrape: But some are sleeping.
Daniel: So then the best approach is severe honesty.
GrapeyGrape: We are not to awake his beloved until he pleases.
Daniel: If someone isn't saved I tell them the truth, they are going to hell.
Moses: Daniel, they won't go to hell.
GrapeyGrape: Well what about talking about believing and what is required.
Moses: Because of there's no hell.
GrapeyGrape: .john 3 16
Barnabas: KJV John 3:16 xxi For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Sayorj:
Daniel: If someone isn't saved I tell them the truth, they are going to helllol - Pretending to know he's 100% saved. lol
GrapeyGrape: .acts 2 21
Barnabas: KJV Acts 2:21 xxii And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
GrapeyGrape: We are not saved until we are saved.
Daniel: Of course I know I am saved. I know I am elect even.
GrapeyGrape: You believe you are by Faith.
Daniel: If you do not know you are elect, you aren't saved.
GrapeyGrape: Well that is giving yourself a name that isn't yours to give.
Daniel: It is the believer's hope.
GrapeyGrape: Yes.
Moses: Good luck with your hope.
GrapeyGrape: We are saved by hope.
matthieu: Faith hope and charity Moses.
GrapeyGrape: .rom 8 24
Barnabas: KJV Romans 8:24 xxiii For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
Daniel: So then because I hope, I am saved. I know I hope, I know I'm saved. xxiv
GrapeyGrape: Yes lest ye error. So others can error and not be saved??
Daniel: Most are not saved.
matthieu: You can always put yourself in mortal sin, Daniel, till the time of your death.
GrapeyGrape: Those who have a crown in revelations are told "let no man take thy crown" showing its possible.
Daniel: I hope that I will not perish.
GrapeyGrape: Yes.
Daniel: As long as I hope, I won't perish.
GrapeyGrape: Right that is humble too. All who call upon the LORD shall be saved so its as easy as Save me Jesus.
Daniel: Most self-described Christians do not hope, or they hope amiss; they are shown scripture and they deny it.
matthieu: http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-iiN5032A1Ik/Uu9phLZJxkI/AAAAAAAACzo/LzJ9T56vxRc/s1600/Our+Lady+of+Sorrows+St+Stefano.jpg
GrapeyGrape: Daniel, I know some deny scriptures but it is because they don't understand them or know what is written or they have their eyes shut for a reason so we are told to kick the dust off of feet because there is no way they are going to see the same thing that some see.
Daniel: Yes, and those people are not saved.
GrapeyGrape: It isn't their time.
Daniel: I don't push it; I warn each person once.
Sayorj: Looks like Daniel has tickets of hell and heaven. lol
GrapeyGrape: Well its like saying nanny nanny boo boo I'm saved and you are not when the LORD may have them asleep for HIS reasons.
catholic: He's misrepresenting us.
Sayorj: You're none to warn anyone, Daniel.
Daniel: You're projecting on me that I say these things out of bragging.
Sayorj: :o)
Daniel: Prove me wrong with scripture.
matthieu: ?niv Matthew 10:22 xxv
pete-: Mat10:22 All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. (NIV)
GrapeyGrape: well i dont know that but it comes off like that and perhaps you are not meaning to
catholic: Amen, Matthew.
Sayorj: I don't need scripture to know that you're wrong, Daniel. ;o)
Daniel: Yes, you do.
matthieu: Catholic. :)
catholic: God is still bigger, matthieu.
GrapeyGrape: Nice verse, matthieu.
catholic: We will be saved.
matthieu: ?niv Roman 14:4 xxvi
pete-: Rom14:4 Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand. (NIV)
GrapeyGrape: Daniel, I know you are trying to be helpful but you are blessed to know what you know it is a blessing just to believe.
catholic: Universe is too intricate too hard to be formed but due to God it was made possible.
Sayorj: Good verse, matthieu - hope angellle would be reading. ;o)
matthieu: Perseverance is related to fortitude. It mean that in original justice it was immortality.
catholic: God wants us to persevere.
matthieu: Before the fall.
Daniel: Leviticus 10:
1 Then Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, each took his censer and put fire in it, put incense on it, and offered profane fire before the Lord, which He had not commanded them. 2 So fire went out from the Lord and devoured them, and they died before the Lord.
catholic: To continue giving him due credits of all our existence and our life.
matthieu: ?niv Phil 2:12 xxvii
pete-: Phi2:12 Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed--not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence--continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, (NIV)
catholic: All the misfortunes of the world was due to fall the breach of order.
GrapeyGrape: Daniel, yes those things happen all of the time- Saul was told he would die. So he fell on his own sword.
Daniel: Numbers 16:
30 But if the Lord creates a new thing, and the earth opens its mouth and swallows them up with all that belongs to them, and they go down alive into the pit, then you will understand that these men have rejected the Lord.”
31 Now it came to pass, as he finished speaking all these words, that the ground split apart under them, 32 and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed them up, with their households and all the men with Korah, with all their goods. 33 So they and all those with them went down alive into the pit; the earth closed over them, and they perished from among the assembly.
pete-: Daniel, you appear to be flooding the channel with pasted text, if you have something to say, please say it without flooding.
catholic: And Atheist cannot explain it - they are clueless and resort to his narrow perspective. A human interpretation of the events.
GrapeyGrape: It's called an earthquake and it will happen again.
catholic: So with the beginning of the universe, no explanation is still accurate.
Daniel: 1 Samuel 25:
38 Then it happened, after about ten days, that the Lord struck Nabal, and he died.
Moses: Life was given to people, billions of years ago what have they done with it?
Sayorj: Subjective though.
catholic: Heart attack its pathophysiology is still under the dictates of God as author of life and death.
Daniel: 2 Samuel 6:
6 And when they came to Nachon’s threshing floor, Uzzah put out his hand to the ark of God and took hold of it, for the oxen stumbled. 7 Then the anger of the Lord was aroused against Uzzah, and God struck him there for his error; and he died there by the ark of God.
Moses: They invented religion.
catholic: Even cancer or pneumonia pathophysiology is still under the dictates of God as author of life and death. Were all just figures in this world.
Daniel: 2 Chronicles 13:
20 So Jeroboam did not recover strength again in the days of Abijah; and the Lord struck him, and he died.
catholic: We are nothing, but with God we have dignity. God gave us love and dignity. Wanting to restore the bond.
catholic: ?niv john 3:16
pete-: John3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. (NIV)
Daniel: 2 Chronicles 21:
18 After all this the Lord struck him in his intestines with an incurable disease. 19 Then it happened in the course of time, after the end of two years, that his intestines came out because of his sickness; so he died in severe pain. And his people made no burning for him, like the burning for his fathers.
1 Samuel 2:
25 If one man sins against another, God will judge him. But if a man sins against the Lord, who will intercede for him?” Nevertheless they did not heed the voice of their father, because the Lord desired to kill them.
catholic: Jesus came to restore our Bond to God sealed on day of creation of human life. Before the fall. So He did. He was active in history.
matthieu: "If anyone says that justification is only attained by those who are predestined, let him be anathema."
catholic: The genesis of world kingdoms and empires. God was there. Very active. Though in most discreet way through the Patriarchs whom he led.
Daniel: Acts 12:
21 So on a set day Herod, arrayed in royal apparel, sat on his throne and gave an oration to them. 22 And the people kept shouting, “The voice of a god and not of a man!” 23 Then immediately an angel of the Lord struck him, because he did not give glory to God. And he was eaten by worms and died.
pete-: Daniel, you appear to be flooding the channel with pasted text, if you have something to say, please say it without flooding.
catholic: From Cannaan to Mesopotamia to Egypt to Assyria to Babylon. God was behind the scenes of kingdom coming and going.
Daniel: Isaiah 65:
15 You shall leave your name as a curse to My chosen;
For the Lord God will slay you,
And call His servants by another name;Revelation 19:
21 And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.
catholic: We are all slayed by Diseases.
Daniel: Job 13:
15 Though He slay me, yet will I trust Him.
Even so, I will defend my own ways before Him.catholic: Disease molecular processed were under the dictates of God.
Daniel: Luke 12:
4 “And I say to you, My friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. 5 But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear Him who, after He has killed, has power to cast into hell; yes, I say to you, fear Him!
catholic: We are such a tiny speck of dust in this huge universe. We cannot fathom this life nor our death.
matthieu: "If anyone says that it is lawful for Christians to have several wives at the same time and this is not prohibited by divine law, let him be anathema."
catholic: We even can't give meaning on our life. God made this life "short."
GrapeyGrape: Daniel, okay you have made your point with scripture with an anchor much less a lure thus the anchor can cause a title wave and all will drown so what is the help here?
Daniel: Matthieu, lol what is that quote from?
matthieu: Trent council.
catholic: Some people live only a matter of seconds or hours and died.
matthieu: I pasted that one for you, Daniel. :p
Daniel: GrapeyGrape, I have been accused here of not being in the truth because of my claim that God kills. Matthieu, yes what is it quoted from? Oh.
matthieu: Council of Trent.
Daniel: So not the Bible then.
matthieu: The magisterium.
GrapeyGrape: Okay, you posted verses where God does kill it is truth.
Daniel: GrapeyGrape, you believe it and that is good, but the rest don't.
matthieu: Another one that is very good : "If anyone says that marriage is to be placed above virginity or celibacy and that it is not better and more blessed to remain in virginity or celibacy than to be united in matrimony, let him be anathema."
GrapeyGrape: The scriptures were posted.
Daniel: Matthieu, I never said it's better to marry than to remain abstinent.
GrapeyGrape: Now what about the verses where he makes alive and forgives upon repentance and saves.
Daniel: The Bible says it's better to not marry. xxviii
matthieu: Yes that one is not for you, Daniel. :)
Daniel: Okay.
matthieu: It's just a great one.
Daniel: GrapeyGrape, most false Christians already believe that God makes alive and heals. If they denied that, I'd show them that scripture.
GrapeyGrape: Okay. =)
Daniel: I'm surely better off having not married yet.
GrapeyGrape: And why is that?
Daniel: I only recently joined a church that's in the truth; if I had married sooner I'd probably be with a wife that doesn't believe. And such a thing is worse than death. xxix
catholic: Christianity is not meant for everyone. Jesus predicted it. It's not for all. ?niv mat 10:14 xxx
pete-: Mat10:14 If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, shake the dust off your feet when you leave that home or town. (NIV)
catholic: Jesus does not care. Take it or leave it. It's easy formula.
Daniel: He cares very much; He is long suffering because of the wicked He creates for destruction. xxxi
Sayorj: He actually cares. :o) But doesn't force.
catholic: It's God's complete giving of free will.
Sayorj: Not an extremist. :-)
Daniel: Free will is false doctrine.
catholic: God won't make human his creation a robot.
Daniel: Yes, He did just that.
catholic: You exercise it and it's false?
Daniel: I do what God makes me do.
Sayorj: lol
catholic: Still God as author of life and death we cant change it.
Sayorj: Blaming God for one's sin is of pagans.
Daniel: I'm not blaming God.
catholic: In the first place, your life was not out of your consent. You did not chose to live.
Sayorj: Frankly, free will is pretty complex idea therefore possibly your drug-love guru don't know it. :o) And because they don't know it therefore deny.
catholic: You cannot undo what God had made for you: life.
Daniel: Nobody in our church "loves" drugs.
Sayorj: Blaming their sins upon God in ignorance.
catholic: That makes you still under the grand "scheme" of God. No one is exempted both living and stardust.
Daniel: And if anyone blames God for something, God has caused them to cast such blame. xxxii
Sayorj: lol So if all is what God do then hell - heaven are jokes.
Daniel: So then clearly God is without blame, for He is the one who causes blame to be spoken.
Sayorj: But we know these aren't jokes.
catholic: God doesn't need anyone how he formed the massive stars in the first place and the first respiration of beings in primordial soup.
Sayorj: So be responsible for your deeds.
catholic: First cell was still impossible to form spontaneously.
Daniel: Everyone is responsible for the things God causes them to do. xxxiii
catholic: The odds of life is trillion times in one. Such as the membrane formation of cell integrity.
Sayorj:
Daniel: Everyone is responsible for the things God causes them to doHow lame. :o)
catholic: Until how we digest iron from food have undergone a million years of Gods intricate grand scheme of universe. So were nothing.
Grapey: .deu 30 19 20 xxxiv
Barnabas: KJV Deuteronomy 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
Barnabas: KJV Deuteronomy 30:20 That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.
catholic: We once a fetus and our development entails a billions of molecular processes.
Sayorj: Oh, just noticed catholic is discussing evolution - cool.
catholic: So we as physical being was once powerless even to our own physiologic development - worst our consciousness of God. Without design set of God- we have no consciousness of the Higher Being who made us.
Sayorj: So God is a designer?
catholic: He designed our faculty to "reach out."
Sayorj: :o)
catholic: Creator designer of life ... nothing follows. Our consciousness of self and time. It's all been set by God.
- I had already warned some people in this room, and one of the things I brought up was how it's not inherently wrong to use drugs. ^
- Deuteronomy 32:
35 Vengeance is Mine, and recompense;
Their foot shall slip in due time;
For the day of their calamity is at hand,
And the things to come hasten upon them.’36 “For the Lord will judge His people
And have compassion on His servants,
When He sees that their power is gone,
And there is no one remaining, bond or free.
37 He will say: ‘Where are their gods,
The rock in which they sought refuge?
38 Who ate the fat of their sacrifices,
And drank the wine of their drink offering?
Let them rise and help you,
And be your refuge. - Catholic identifies as "Catholic." ^
Darwin: And for many other rejections of God's Word, not just for this.
- Romans 1:
20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,
- 1 Timothy 6:
3 If anyone teaches otherwise and does not consent to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which accords with godliness,
- Jude 1:
3 Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints.
- Is it obvious he's an atheist yet? ^
Darwin: It can be translated that way. It is in the hiphil form which is the causative form which is the same form for when Reuben said to his father, “Kill my two sons” (Genesis 42:37). Or, when Pharaoh ordered the midwives to kill the newborns in Exodus 1:16; or, when an ox kills a man in Exodus 21:29; or in Leviticus 20:4 when they don’t kill someone they were supposed to kill; or when the congregation accused Moses of Aaron of killing people (Numbers 16:41), or in Joshua 10:26 where Joshua struck and killed the five kings; or 1 Kings 13:24 where a lion kills a man; or in 2 Kings 5:7 where the king of Israel said, “Am I God, to kill and make alive, . . . ?” Or, Hosea 9:16 where God says, “were they to bear children, I would kill the darlings of their womb." Etc., etc..
- Leviticus 10:
1 Then Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, each took his censer and put fire in it, put incense on it, and offered profane fire before the Lord, which He had not commanded them.
- Numbers 16:
30 But if the Lord creates a new thing, and the earth opens its mouth and swallows them up with all that belongs to them, and they go down alive into the pit, then you will understand that these men have rejected the Lord.”
31 Now it came to pass, as he finished speaking all these words, that the ground split apart under them, 32 and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed them up, with their households and all the men with Korah, with all their goods. 33 So they and all those with them went down alive into the pit; the earth closed over them, and they perished from among the assembly.
- 1 Samuel 25:
38 Then it happened, after about ten days, that the Lord struck Nabal, and he died.
- 2 Samuel 6:
1 Again David gathered all the choice men of Israel, thirty thousand. 2 And David arose and went with all the people who were with him from Baale Judah to bring up from there the ark of God, whose name is called by the Name, the Lord of Hosts, who dwells between the cherubim. 3 So they set the ark of God on a new cart, and brought it out of the house of Abinadab, which was on the hill; and Uzzah and Ahio, the sons of Abinadab, drove the new cart. 4 And they brought it out of the house of Abinadab, which was on the hill, accompanying the ark of God; and Ahio went before the ark. 5 Then David and all the house of Israel played music before the Lord on all kinds of instruments of fir wood, on harps, on stringed instruments, on tambourines, on sistrums, and on cymbals.
6 And when they came to Nachon’s threshing floor, Uzzah put out his hand to the ark of God and took hold of it, for the oxen stumbled. 7 Then the anger of the Lord was aroused against Uzzah, and God struck him there for his error; and he died there by the ark of God.
- 2 Chronicles 13:
20 So Jeroboam did not recover strength again in the days of Abijah; and the Lord struck him, and he died.
- 2 Chronicles 21:
18 After all this the Lord struck him in his intestines with an incurable disease. 19 Then it happened in the course of time, after the end of two years, that his intestines came out because of his sickness; so he died in severe pain. And his people made no burning for him, like the burning for his fathers.
- Psalm 115:
3 But our God is in heaven;
He does whatever He pleases. - Sarcasm. ^
- Hebrews 11:
1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
- Romans 11:
7 What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
- John 10:
27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.
- John 3:
16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
- Acts 2:
And it shall come to pass
That whoever calls on the name of the Lord
Shall be saved.’ - Romans 8:
24 For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees?
Darwin: Another good verse on this is 1 John 2:3-5.
- Matthew 10:
22 And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake. But he who endures to the end will be saved.
- Romans 14:
4 Who are you to judge another’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand.
- Philippians 2:
12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;
- 1 Corinthians 7:
8 But I say to the unmarried and to the widows: It is good for them if they remain even as I am;
1 Corinthians 7:
26 I suppose therefore that this is good because of the present distress—that it is good for a man to remain as he is: 27 Are you bound to a wife? Do not seek to be loosed. Are you loosed from a wife? Do not seek a wife.
- Ecclesiastes 7:
26 And I find more bitter than death
The woman whose heart is snares and nets,
Whose hands are fetters.
He who pleases God shall escape from her,
But the sinner shall be trapped by her.Darwin: It CAN be worse than death (Ecclesiastes 7:26). It wouldn’t have to be. It would depend on the woman and just how wicked she is. There are “nice” wicked people (relatively speaking). Even a wicked man can please the Lord (e.g. 2 Kings 10:29-31).
- Matthew 10:
14 And whoever will not receive you nor hear your words, when you depart from that house or city, shake off the dust from your feet.
- Romans 9:
22 What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction,
- Romans 9:
19 You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?” 20 But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, “Why have you made me like this?” 21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?
Darwin: Awesome truth (Romans 9:19-21)!
- Deuteronomy 30:
19 I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live; 20 that you may love the Lord your God, that you may obey His voice, and that you may cling to Him, for He is your life and the length of your days; and that you may dwell in the land which the Lord swore to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, to give them.”