Daniel P. Barron

And if he will not hear them: tell the church.

Friday, June 12, 2020 

Someone who identifies as oriental orthodox asked me:

Why do you think we are all going to hell?

The orthodox church teaches destructive heresies.


What kind of protestant are you?

I'm not a protestant as they also teach destructive heresies.


The "dangerous heresies" that have been taught by the Apostles themselves.

I do not have a problem with the things taught and found in Scripture.


Where in Scripture is this standard taught? The Apostle's teaching was not limited to writing nor was their writing considered the only authority for Christian believers in the first century.

"All Scripture" is "profitable for doctrine."i Believers check with Scripture to make sure doctrine is true.ii Paul taught "the whole counsel of God,"iii not needing your church's doctrine to know this.iv And if you do teach "otherwise," we believers know to "withdraw" from you.v


None of those Scriptures say Scripture is the only authority. Jesus built a Church and that Church had authority over the faithful.vi

Indeed Christ made a church, but that is not your church. I know this because you teach "otherwise," and you have no way to prove historical heritage since "there is no remembrance of former things."vii


The Church of Christ would never fail and so for a Church to be valid it'd have to have lineage from the Apostles.viii

Christ's church which is His bodyix indeed can never fail. But individual churches can leave the faith and be no more. Where are the seven churches of Asia today?x Did Paul warn the church of Galatia in vain?xi


Of course individual Churches can fail, it just so happens that no Protestant Church existed until the 1500s.

Again, Protestantism likewise leads to hell. On the matter of things Scripture does and doesn't say: it doesn't say that an individual church needs to have "lineage from the Apostles." It doesn't say that a church can't pop up out of seemingly nowhere and be in the truth.


But its teachings must be in line with the teachings of the church which has its lineage to the apostles.

No, in order to be in the truth, a church's teachings must be in line with Scripture. Your church is not in line with Scripture. Even the things we agree are Scripture and doctrine you do not get right; let alone the extra-biblical doctrine your church alone has the authority to teach.xii


The True Church's foundation is upon Christ and the Apostles, thereby a Church needs to be Apostolic to be valid.

Indeed a true church has its foundation on Christ and the Apostles. But it does not follow that this means there need be a lineage. It does not follow that someone cannot be in the truth if they have never heard of your extra-biblical doctrines. Scripture says "the heavens declare the glory of God"xiii and that this truth has been revealed to all so that they have no excuse.xiv This includes the many people who have not heard of your church. They have heard the Gospel nonetheless.


Who's Church has this authority?xv

Certainly not any churches like yours that teach contrary to Scripture!


Happy Trinity Sunday! (Happy Pentecost for Eastern Orthodox/Orientals)

This is one of your destructive heresies. The trinity is a false doctrine.


Christ can call the Father his God for he is also fully man. Further, Christ is the Word of God made flesh. He is nothing but the True Offspring of the Father, eternal God of eternal God.xvi

There is another destructive heresy of yours: that God is not a man. That is why you go out of your way to say "he is also fully man." Of course Christ is a man. God is a manxvii and Christ is God!


Christ became man without ceasing to be what he was before.

He didn't change.xviii Christxix has always been a man.


There was a time in which Christ did not have a human nature for St. John tells us "The Word became flesh and dwelt among us..." The Holy Fathers of the Faith of Christ proclaim One Christ, both God and Man. Any other Christ is a False Christ.xx

You add to the Word.xxi Indeed there is a time and placexxii in which God was born in this world. But that does not mean He wasn't already a man with flesh.xxiii Or that He doesn't still have flesh today.xxiv


Adding to the Word is affirming St. John the Evangelist?

Your addition is that "became flesh" means God wasn't already a man. The verse doesn't say that.


John 1:1 affirms that God isn't a man.xxv

No it doesn't! It so clearly doesn't! It affirms that Christ is God. But it does not speak to whether or not God is a human.


I don't see where it says God in his Divine Nature has flesh or bones.

I have shown you passages that affirm God has flesh and bones.


Nor will he ever change.

If God doesn't change, and God "became flesh," then God has always had flesh. He created humans in His image.xxvi This isn't a lie or a metaphor. God created us man and woman because God Himself is man and woman.xxvii


So you believe God has a literal Body and is man/woman?

Yes, since that's what Scripture says, which I read like a child,xxviii rather than with the baggage of the traditions of men.xxix


I showed several scripturesxxx that contradict your heresy but you remain silent.

I am not ignoring you. I am taking my time to make sure I explain correctly. Numbers 23 says that God is "not a man" and then goes on to explain what kind of man God is not: the kind that lies and changes.


You're reading that into the text. It plainly says "God is not a man." Then it explains that God can't lie or repent, for he is not man.

No, you have added to say that this verse means God is not a man. You read the first few words and discard the rest of the verse!


It says "God is not a man." You gave him a body.

And it goes on to say "that He should..." I know God has a body from many other passages throughout Scripture.


Yeah, by reading it into the text and ignoring the piles of Scripture that proclaim God wholly unique and unlike any other.

God spoke to Moses, in a language Moses could comprehend.xxxi God is "like" man in that He speaks similar languages. God breaths;xxxii men breathe. Another likeness. God has blood; men have blood.xxxiii Indeed God alone is unique and there are no other Gods beside Him. But He has many similarities to man and woman, which make sense considering we are made in His image.xxxiv


There is analogy, but God is utterly unique in his own Nature. It infinitely surpasses us and we can never comprehend him. A comprehended God is not a God at all.

Indeed, He is a man with many qualities that are beyond my comprehension.xxxv


No. That's not what scripture says. God is a Spirit. And he is not a man. Repent of your heresy.

He is spirit and man. He is also a city!


I'll pray for your conversion.

Your prayer is an abomination.xxxvi

  1. 2 Timothy 3:

    16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,

  2. Acts 17:

    11 These were more fair-minded than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so.

  3. Acts 20:

    27 For I have not shunned to declare to you the whole counsel of God.

  4. 1 John 2:

    27 But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him.

  5. 1 Timothy 6:

    3 If anyone teaches otherwise and does not consent to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which accords with godliness, 4 he is proud, knowing nothing, but is obsessed with disputes and arguments over words, from which come envy, strife, reviling, evil suspicions, 5 useless wranglings of men of corrupt minds and destitute of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain. From such withdraw yourself.

  6. citing (DRA) Matthew 18:

    17 And if he will not hear them: tell the church. And if he will not hear the church, let him be to thee as the heathen and publican.

  7. Ecclesiastes 1:

    11 There is no remembrance of former things,
    Nor will there be any remembrance of things that are to come
    By those who will come after.

  8. citing (DRA) Matthew 16:

    18 And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19 And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.

  9. Ephesians 5:

    32 This is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

  10. Revelation 1:

    11 saying, “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last,” and, “What you see, write in a book and send it to the seven churches which are in Asia: to Ephesus, to Smyrna, to Pergamos, to Thyatira, to Sardis, to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea.”

  11. Galatians 1:

    6 I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, 7 which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ.

  12. According to them, and in opposition to Scripture which says nobody is in need that someone teach them.

  13. Psalm 19:

    1 The heavens declare the glory of God;
    And the firmament shows His handiwork.

  14. Romans 1:

    18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.

  15. citing (DRA) Matthew 18:

    17 And if he will not hear them: tell the church. And if he will not hear the church, let him be to thee as the heathen and publican.

  16. citing (DRA) John 1:

    1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.


    and (DRA) John 1:

    14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we saw his glory, the glory as it were of the only begotten of the Father, ) full of grace and truth.

  17. Exodus 15:

    The Lord is a man of war;
    The Lord is His name.


    Judges 13:

    11 So Manoah arose and followed his wife. When he came to the Man, he said to Him, “Are You the Man who spoke to this woman?”

    And He said, “I am.

  18. Hebrews 13:

    8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.

  19. God

  20. citing (AMP) Philippians 2:

    6 who, although He existed in the form and unchanging essence of God <as One with Him, possessing the fullness of all the divine attributes—the entire nature of deity> , did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped or asserted <as if He did not already possess it, or was afraid of losing it> ; 7 but emptied Himself <without renouncing or diminishing His deity, but only temporarily giving up the outward expression of divine equality and His rightful dignity> by assuming the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men <He became completely human but was without sin, being fully God and fully man>. 8 After He was found in <terms of His> outward appearance as a man <for a divinely-appointed time> , He humbled Himself <still further> by becoming obedient <to the Father> to the point of death, even death on a cross. 9 For this reason also <because He obeyed and so completely humbled Himself> , God has highly exalted Him and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name,

  21. Proverbs 30:

    6 Do not add to His words,
    Lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar.

  22. actually multiple times and places

  23. Genesis 6:

    6 And the Lord was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart.

  24. Luke 24:

    39 Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have.”

  25. citing (DRA)

    In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

  26. Genesis 1:

    26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” 27 So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.

  27. human beings, plural

  28. Matthew 18:

    3 and said, “Assuredly, I say to you, unless you are converted and become as little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.

  29. Colossians 2:

    8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ.

  30. citing (DRA) Numbers 23:

    19 God is not a man, that he should lie, nor as the son of man, that he should be changed. Hath he said then, and will he not do? hath he spoken, and will he not fulfill?


    (DRA) Isaiah 45:

    5 I am the Lord, and there is none else: there is no God, besides me: I girded thee, and thou hast not known me:


    (DRA) Isaiah 44:

    6 Thus saith the Lord the king of Israel, and his redeemer the Lord of hosts: I am the first, and I am the last, and besides me there is no God.


    (DRA) Isaiah 46:

    9 Remember the former age, for I am God, and there is no God beside, neither is there the like to me:

  31. Exodus 6:

    2 And God spoke to Moses and said to him: “I am the Lord.

  32. Genesis 2:

    7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.

  33. Acts 20:

    28 Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.

  34. Genesis 9:

    6 “Whoever sheds man’s blood,
    By man his blood shall be shed;
    For in the image of God
    He made man.

  35. Isaiah 55:

    9 “For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
    So are My ways higher than your ways,
    And My thoughts than your thoughts.

  36. Proverbs 28:

    9 One who turns away his ear from hearing the law,
    Even his prayer is an abomination.

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