Daniel P. Barron

There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, and yourselves thrust out.

Sunday, June 16, 2019

This log has been reviewed by Darwin Fish.

comborico1611: Hello.
Daniel: Hello. Check out http://atruechurch.info/ and don't go to hell like the rest of the world!
comborico1611: My soul has been raptured.
Daniel: Oh?
comborico1611: Ephesians 2:

6i And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Notice it isn't will raise us up. But "has raised us up." Have you heard about Israel Falau?
Daniel: That's a soul and a new body. But you think you are saved?
comborico1611: Yes.
Daniel: Did you check out the link?
comborico1611: No.
Daniel: Why not?
comborico1611: I'm saved.
Daniel: So then check it out to tell me how I'm wrong and not saved if that's the case.
comborico1611: I didn't say you weren't saved...
Daniel: If you would check out the link, you'll probably see that we disagree on what scripture says.
comborico1611: I've never met anyone I didn't agree with totally. Let me check out how wrong you are, though. :) The title page seems written for me. Heh. Yup, we disagree.
Daniel: Where do we disagree?
comborico1611: Steven Anderson.
Daniel: You think Steven Anderson is in the truth?
comborico1611: Yes.
Daniel: Then you are listening to the voice of a false teacher and you are not saved.
comborico1611: Testify to where he preaches falsely.
Daniel: We have an article about him; you can read it and tell me where we are wrong.
comborico1611: Sure thing. I see. Eternal Security. I use to not believe it. I wonder why you all have Suicide as the first point. Seems more important to have Eternal Security first.
Daniel: Seems to me the two go hand-in-hand.
comborico1611: III. is a disenginuine (sppelling) point.
comborico1611: Ah, good point. That is true. So the suicide issue is easily dispelled. But my argumentation all stands from the idea that the bible is without error. Do you agree?
Daniel: Yes.
comborico1611: Which bible is the true bible. For there are many different books calling themselves "bible" but do not agree.
Daniel: We go by the original Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic.
comborico1611: Okay. I'm having trouble finding the verse. You remember the one that says all the prophets? Let me just get my notes.
Daniel: Matthew 11:

11 “Assuredly, I say to you, among those born of women there has not risen one greater than John the Baptist; but he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. 12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and the violent take it by force. 13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John. 14 And if you are willing to receive it, he is Elijah who is to come. 15 He who has ears to hear, let him hear!

Daniel: Luke 11:

49 Therefore the wisdom of God also said, ‘I will send them prophets and apostles, and some of them they will kill and persecute,’ 50 that the blood of all the prophets which was shed from the foundation of the world may be required of this generation, 51 from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah who perished between the altar and the temple. Yes, I say to you, it shall be required of this generation.

Daniel: Luke 24:

25 Then He said to them, “O foolish ones, and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken! 26 Ought not the Christ to have suffered these things and to enter into His glory?” 27 And beginning at Moses and all the Prophets, He expounded to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning Himself.

comborico1611: Would you like to hear my defense that suicide will not land you in hell?
Daniel: Sure.
comborico1611: Luke 13:

28ii There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.

Do you agree that "all the prophets" are in saved, in heaven?iii
Daniel: All the not false ones, yeah.
comborico1611: Was King Saul a prophet?
Daniel: No.
comborico1611: 1 Samuel 10:

10iv And when they came thither to the hill, behold, a company of prophets met him; and the Spirit of God came upon him, and he prophesied among them. 11 And it came to pass, when all that knew him beforetime saw that, behold, he prophesied among the prophets, then the people said one to another, What is this that is come unto the son of Kish? Is Saul also among the prophets?

Daniel: Non prophets can prophesy.
comborico1611: Do you have a verse for this?
Daniel: To prophesy is to proclaim the word of God. To be a prophet is to be a seer.
comborico1611: That is true. But what of this Spirit of God coming upon him?
Daniel: Doesn't mean he was elect.
comborico1611: Actually, that is not a good argument. The Spirit also came upon Balaam. True. So my argument would be that this oft repeated "Is Saul also among the prophets" , that this is important.
Daniel: http://danielpbarron.com/2019/you-shall-surely-perish/#prophet : regarding your request for scripture on what a prophet is.
comborico1611: I read it. You are missing the second definition of prophesying.
Daniel: It's there, 1 Corinthians 14:31.v It says all believers can prophesy, and 1 Corinthians 12:29vi says not all believers are prophets.
comborico1611: Luke 22:

64vii And when they had blindfolded him, they struck him on the face, and asked him, saying, Prophesy, who is it that smote thee?

Daniel: Therefor, someone who prophesies is not necessarily a prophet.
comborico1611: That definition speaks of a supernatural power, does it not?
Daniel: Right, a prophet has supernatural powers.
comborico1611: So we agree that to prophesy is to preach the word of God 2) to tell the future or other supernatural ability.
Daniel: No.
comborico1611: Where did I go wrong?
Daniel: To prophesy isn't necessarily to do a supernatural thing. It could be simply proclaiming the already revealed word of God.
comborico1611: Correct. By the number 2, I am implying a second definition.
Daniel: Oh, then yes.
comborico1611: And we agree that the Spirit coming upon an individual doesn't necessitate election.
Daniel: Yes.
comborico1611: So I wage more value in this phrase "is Saul also among the prophet". Though I concede that such a statement is not proof.
Daniel: Saul is in hell.viii
comborico1611: Is Solomon?
Daniel: Yes.ix
comborico1611: Is Solomon a prophet?x
Daniel: Oh, no.xi He's in hell.
comborico1611: How could a man write a book of the Bible, and not be a prophet?
Daniel: God made him do it. God makes evil men do good things.
comborico1611: True. Is Samuel in hell?
Daniel: No. Samuel is a prophet.
comborico1611: So if I can find a verse that says Solomon is a prophet, what would that do for you?
Daniel: That would be interesting indeed.
comborico1611: Can one lose their prophet status?
Daniel: I'm not sure; I don't think so.
comborico1611: So I am unsaved because I do not recognize a false prophet?
Daniel: I'm not saying Anderson is a prophet, but he is a false teacher.
comborico1611: Where is this in the bible? Prophet = preacher.
Daniel: A preacher is not necessarily a prophet.
Daniel: 2 Peter 2:

1 But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction. 2 And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemed. 3 By covetousness they will exploit you with deceptive words; for a long time their judgment has not been idle, and their destruction does not slumber.

John 10:

“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door, but climbs up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. 2 But he who enters by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. 3 To him the doorkeeper opens, and the sheep hear his voice; and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. 4 And when he brings out his own sheep, he goes before them; and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice. 5 Yet they will by no means follow a stranger, but will flee from him, for they do not know the voice of strangers.” 6 Jesus used this illustration, but they did not understand the things which He spoke to them.

comborico1611: Was not Peter a false teacher?
Daniel: Peter was not a false teacher.
comborico1611: By the way, do you know these other people in the room?xii I'm just curious.
Daniel: No I don't.
comborico1611: So if there is any error in a teacher, are they a false teacher? Or does it take a eggregious error?
Daniel: Not necessarily; if they are in the truth they will consent to wholesome words.
comborico1611: But they can err, right?
Daniel: 1 Timothy 6:

3 If anyone teaches otherwise and does not consent to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which accords with godliness,

Someone could be wrong about a teaching, and then admit they were wrong, and be in the truth.
comborico1611: Okay. So I read that first line "But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you" to mean the two terms are interchangeable.
Daniel: I don't think it means that.
comborico1611: We will have to agree to disagree there. So false teachers among you (the elect) is an admission that believing, listening, having among us, false teachers is not a mark of damnation.
Daniel: We can't agree to disagree on scripture and both be saved.
comborico1611: Sure we can. Philippians 3:

16xiii Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.

Daniel: And no, you cannot listen to these false teachers and be saved, as John 10:1 says believers will not hear them but rather flee. Doesn't Philippians 3:16 mean we can't disagree, but must "walk by the same rule" and "mind the same thing."
comborico1611: Whereto we have both attained, THERE we can both walk by teh same rule. John 10:

1 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.

Daniel: Romans 15:

6 that you may with one mind and one mouth glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

comborico1611: If we haven't attained it, we can't walk by the same rule. Oh, yes. We are called to one mind. No argument there.
Daniel: Whoops, I meant john 10:5.
comborico1611: How can there be false teachers among you, but the sheep will always flee false teachers? You are not rightly dividing the word here.
Daniel: To be among someone isn't necessarily to fellowship with them. I'm among neighbors who don't believe.
comborico1611: You're stretching that aren't you?
Daniel: Some work among coworkers who don't believe.
comborico1611: It is possible, but do you believe that is the spirit of the message? Or do you admit it is a weak argument?
Daniel: Yes, because other passages say that believers will not listen to the voice of false teachers but rather flee from them. Meaning, not fellowship with them. Which is not a command, but rather a matter of fact.
comborico1611: Okay. Let me show you some elect that did have a false teacher among their spiritual assembly.
Daniel: Okay.
comborico1611: The Galatians were listening to a false teacher, correct?xiv
Daniel: Refresh my memory.
comborico1611: Galatians 1:

6xv I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

Daniel: Okay.
comborico1611: However, how can Paul say the following: Galatians 4:

6xvi And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

So there is proof that false teachers were among (teaching in the church) of the sheep. They did not flee. Paul begs them to reject their false belief and be as he is: (whereto we have already attained) Galatians 4:

12xvii Brethren, I beseech you, be as I am; for I am as ye are: ye have not injured me at all.

Daniel: Did they remain with the false teachers? Galatians 4:

20 I would like to be present with you now and to change my tone; for I have doubts about you.

comborico1611: Remember in Verse Four, he calls them sons that have the Spirit. Paul would also consider them elect in Verse 20. No instruction was given to separate from the false teacher. But Paul was confident they would reject the false belief: Galatians 5:

10xviii I have confidence in you through the Lord, that ye will be none otherwise minded: but he that troubleth you shall bear his judgment, whosoever he be.

Paul does say that he wishes the false teacher would be killed: Galatians 5:

12xix I would they were even cut off which trouble you.

So that's not good news for that person. He didn't call them to repentance which I find significant.
Daniel: So then what is your point again?
comborico1611: Your position that the flock will always flee from false teachers is false.
Daniel: Then John is a liar?
comborico1611: And your position that if one follows a false teacher that person is damned, is incorrect. For the elect (the church at Galatia) followed a false teacher, yet was called the sons of God.
Daniel: I didn't say damned.
comborico1611: No, the word is not rightly divided. Sorry, "not saved."
Daniel: It seems to me that the Galatians were "troubled" by some false teachings and Paul came along and set them straight on the matter, and even wanted the false teachers killed. I don't think they continued to listen to those false teachers. Whereas you currently think Steve Anderson is in the truth; you actively listen to him, and do not flee.
comborico1611: But your position is that they would have fled from them without Paul's help, is it not?
Daniel: If they are elect, yes.
comborico1611: But they remained listening to that false teacher until Paul intervened. They did heard the voice of the stranger and embraced him.
Daniel: So then if you are elect you will stop listening to the false teacher Steve Anderson.
comborico1611: We still haven't established his errors. But your point seems to be destroyed here that the sheep will, of their own accord, just leave false teachers. They did not flee. John isn't lying. Your interpretation is just off.
Daniel: What is the correct interpretation then?
comborico1611: Those who are Christians will not accept egregious false teachers.
Daniel: Also, I didn't claim "of their own accord." How is that different than what i have said?
comborico1611: Because it is obvious that the elect can embrace false teachers (the Book of Galatians). Your position is that you can tell a person is not saved by who they listen to.
Daniel: Seems like you just contradicted yourself.
comborico1611: I believe you cannot.
Daniel: If I were to show you the error of the false teacher you are listening to, and you continue to listen to him, I can know you are not saved.
comborico1611: So the Lord was speaking of the sheep fleeing a voice they know not, which must be of obvious false teachers, not ALL false teachers. Lest Galatians is a lie.
Daniel: It's talking not about obvious false teachers but rather the subtle ones who "secretly bring in destructive heresies."
comborico1611: That's the best answer I can give on what fleeing the voice of the stranger means. That's what Peter is talking about, not fleeing the voice of the stranger. So let's address this Eternal Security doctrine.
Daniel: Okay.
comborico1611: John 3:

16xx For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever believeth in him, should not perish but have eternal life.

Whoever believes in him ---> The same has eternal life. Isn't that what the verse says?
Daniel: Yes.
comborico1611: So if you have eternal life, and lose it. Then did you really have eternal life to begin with? Isn't it more like, "should not perish but have pending eternal life." What is your favorite defense against Eternal Security? James 2?xxi
Daniel: And yet the Bible describes people who believed for a time, and then stopped believing.
comborico1611: Where? Usually it is "I never knew you."
Daniel: Luke 8:

13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.

comborico1611: So they don't stop believing, just fall away. Here is example of these: Revelation 2:

4xxii Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.

Daniel: It says they "believe for a while."
comborico1611: So lets compare that with 3:16. Whosoever believeth in him for ever, should not perish. Not is says those who believe at that moment. If you believe at one point in your life, you have eternal life.
Daniel: If you believe, you won't perish. If you believe for a time and then stop believing, you will perish.
comborico1611: 2 Timothy 2:

13xxiii If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

Daniel: You are saying a person can inherit eternal life who does not believe, and this is a contradiction of the very verse you use to support it.
comborico1611: I focus on the eternal life aspect of that verse. You focus on the believing aspect. The verse says if you believe, you have eternal life. If having that immortality is based on you believing forever, then it isn't eternal life. So if a person believes, eternal life is given to them. If they believe not, they still have eternal life. Because they already believed at one point which gave them eternal life.xxiv
Daniel: 2 Timothy 2:

12 If we endure,
We shall also reign with Him.
If we deny Him,
He also will deny us.

comborico1611: So our works save us?
Daniel: No.
comborico1611: You just cited a verse that says if we endure. That's a work of our own.
Daniel: Endure in belief, which Christ gives.
comborico1611: Working on a response. You are working me good. I love it.
Daniel: Same. I have to go soon for bible study but I'll remain logged in here to see your messages, and i'm here all day every day.
comborico1611: The following verse is just restating my argument that the believer is made elect upon belief in Jesus Christ, and is then given eternal life (as well as the Holy Ghost) John 5:

24xxv Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

As for 2 Tim 2:12, I'm not sure what to make of that verse. I'm already aware there are some verses I do not have an answer to. I started off as your doctrine, then came to believe in Eternal Security. It wasn't based on disproving that former doctrine, but rather seeing Eternal Security being proved. I believe it has something to do with this verse: 1 Corinthians 11:

19xxvi For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.

(That is also a good verse to disprove the sheep will always flee heresy.)
Daniel: The elect aren't "made elect upon belief" but they are always elect from before the creation of the world. I'm aware of that argumentation. I use to be Sovereign Grace, as well. It is true that those he forknew he predestined. But that doesn't mean God did the choosing. Forknowledge isn't the same as choosing. But let's not go down that rabbit hole just yet. Eternal Security is far more important. I will go now, hopefully to return. Have anything else?
Daniel:

But that doesn't mean God did the choosing.

Yes it does. John 15:

16 You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you. 17 These things I command you, that you love one another.

18 “If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you. 19 If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you.

2 Thessalonians 2:

13 But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth, 14 to which He called you by our gospel, for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Have anything else?

Yes. I discussed some of your points with Darwin. (the author of the articles on our website) He pointed out that your verse about "all the prophets" doesn't necessarily mean that literally all the prophets go to the kingdom of God. It simply says "all the prophets in the kingdom." (as opposed to those not in it) He also said Solomon was a prophet but we didn't get around to finding the verse for it. Also, regarding the Galatians, he said the Galatians are not necessarily elect. And clearly some of them were indeed not saved as is evident by the very thing you pointed out, they were listening to false teachers.
comborico1611: Hello.
Daniel: Hello. http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/FCmJ6/?raw=true
comborico1611: What is this?
Daniel: Chat log while you were gone.
comborico1611: Got it. Let's see. God choose those which he foreknew. He based his choice on those that he foreknew were going to be regenerated. Romans 8:

29xxvii For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

I'll address each point in the response. But we are currently properly situated on the "enduring = believing" point, as your argument. And mine as "eternal life is given; they are passed from death unto life, never to return to death." We are soon going to enter an area where my KJV-onlyism is going to not allow you to enter.
Daniel: We have an article on that. http://atruechurch.info/kjv.html
comborico1611: Next point: The verse says all the prophets COMMA in the kingdom. So after that, we would need to go into which ancient manuscripts you consider valid. But let's not go that deep just yet.
Daniel: In the NKJV there is no comma there. More important is, what does the Greek say?
comborico1611: So to render it this way: Luke 13:28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and ALL THE PROPHETS IN THE KINGDOM OF GOD, and you yourselves thrust out.
Daniel: Why should the English version be the authority?
comborico1611: I would consider to be error.
Daniel: you consider the Greek to be error?
comborico1611: No, sir. But there are different Greeks out there.
Daniel: Okay but your argument against suicide leading to hell is founded upon a comma?
comborico1611: No. Don't forget, "is Saul also among the prophet." And more importantly, John 3:16. If a person has eternal life, suicide cannot take that away. They have passed from death unto life.
Daniel: Someone who has eternal life will not kill themselves. With the exception (sorta) of Samson. But his killing himself was not a matter of not enduring to the end.xxviii
comborico1611: You consider him a prophet?
Daniel: Whether or not someone is a prophet is not the issue.
comborico1611: I see. And you also believe that Solomon must needs have repented before his death, correct?
Daniel: No, Solomon is in hell.
comborico1611: I see. Thus you must interpret that comma as error.
Daniel: We do not believe the KJV is without error. In fact, it definitely doesn't get the translation right.
comborico1611: Okay. Next point, how can some of the Galatians not be elect, when Paul says Galatians 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
Daniel: Because some of them listened to false teachers. Paul even doubted their salvation in the same book.
comborico1611: So what is your explanation of Galatians 4:6?
Daniel: That it doesn't mean they are elect.
comborico1611: So to be a son of God does not equate to election?
Daniel: Well even by your translation it doesn't specifically say "sons of god."
comborico1611: Yes, but sons of who then? You seem to be evading the spirit of the message.
Daniel: Although in NKJV Galatians 3:26 does say sons of god. In Genesis 6:2xxix the "sons of god" took wives with women on earth and this resulted in great wickedness. Ultimately leading to the flood.
comborico1611: You believe in Perseverance of the Elect, right?
Daniel: I think so; that means the elect cannot fall away?
comborico1611: I'm not sure myself.
Daniel: You should be. Scripture is clear, the elect cannot fall away.
comborico1611: I believe it is usually phrased that the elect will be known if they have endured. The tricky part is if a person falls away, they were not elect. So its difficult to pin someone as elect and then see them fall away in that doctrine.
Daniel: So? Saved and elect are not the same thing. I can say "so and so is saved or not," but I have to know that I myself am elect.
comborico1611: What is the difference between saved and elect?
Daniel: You can lose salvation. You can really and truly believe for a time, and then still go to hell. The elect will not go to hell; they are assured eternal life. Only the elect inherit eternal life.
comborico1611: What do the saved get?
Daniel: If they endure to the end, eternal life; otherwise, eternal destruction. Someone who is saved, who endures to the end, is elect. Elect are saved; not all saved are elect.
comborico1611: I understand. The elect and pending elect.
Daniel: Someone could live for 600 years unsaved and still be elect.
comborico1611: So the elect need not believe yet still go to heaven?
Daniel: No. The elect will believe. Someone could live for 100 years unsaved, and then at the last hour before their death, repent and believe, and they will be saved and elect. And it turns out, they were always elect. Someone else can be saved at 10 years old, live 90 years and in the last hour fall away; turns out they were not elect.
comborico1611: I understand. This is the Perseverance of the Elect.
Daniel: The elect were chosen from the foundation of the world and nothing can take them from God's hand.
comborico1611: I see. Yes that may not be Perseverance. Sounds more like the other version, which is Preservation.
Daniel: You can call it preservation. Just like God preserves His word. It's a promise; an assurance; a matter of fact.
comborico1611: Yes. You believe that someone can have the in-dwelling of the Holy Spirit, and not be elect, but saved only? In other words, the Holy Ghost can leave.
Daniel: I don't know if that's how to put it, but they can really and truly believe. But those who are "born of God" "cannot sin." 1 John 3:

9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

comborico1611: So you spoke of wickedness coming from the sons of God. Did they sin to cause that wickedness which led to the flood?
Daniel: I don't know, but only Noah and his family were saved. The women who "knew" the "sons of god" were not saved.
comborico1611: Fair enough. Do you think it is not unreasonable to consider "and because ye are sons" (Galatia 4:6) to mean sons of God?
Daniel: Not unreasonable. Galatians 3 says "sons of god."
comborico1611: So Paul is writing the letter to the church at Galatia: Galatians 1:

2xxx And all the brethren which are with me, unto the churches of Galatia:

Daniel: The saved are brethren.
comborico1611: Brethren, but not sons.
Daniel: Could be both.
comborico1611: If they were sons, they could not sin. Yet they so soon removed from him that called them (Galatia 1:6). Is that a sin? I must be away from the computer for some time. Maybe not available until tomorrow.
Daniel: Okay.
comborico1611: Back. It just occurred to me that the interpretation proposed by Darwin does not make sense. "in the kingdom of God" must be the verb for the nouns listed. It cannot be paired only with the prophets. There is no verb for the other nouns! I'm speaking of Luke 13:28. What did I miss? Hello.
Daniel: Hello.
comborico1611: Any responses that I missed?
Daniel: Nope.
comborico1611: Do you see how "prophets in the kingdom of God" cannot be?
Daniel: Hm?
comborico1611: Do you have the log?
Daniel: Yes.
comborico1611: Hello.
Daniel: Hello.
comborico1611: Have anything for me? Had enough? Darwin tell you to stop talking with me? Do you want me to leave your channel?
Daniel: It's not my channel. And I have Bible study tonight, I'll bring this issue up again. But you are welcome to email him directly. The Bible commands us to not throw pearls to swinexxxi but I don't see any reason to call you such. You sincerely search scripture to [find] the truth it seems.
comborico1611: So why are you not engaging me anymore?
Daniel: I don't have anything to say at the moment.
comborico1611: So you think it is possible to lump "in the kingdom of God" with "all the prophets" to create a statement with no verb? Or do you agree with me, that, it is not possible.
Daniel: I'm not the one who can read Greek. I'll ask Darwin to take a closer look. I did some searching on my own to see if Solomon is called a prophet in the Bible, and I can't find such a thing. Plenty of people make this claim, and I assume it's based on him having written some of the Bible.
comborico1611: What was the point I had before this one? I am not logging this conversation.
Daniel: I don't know, probably eternal security.
comborico1611: So a problem most Christians have when answering the question "Do you believe the Bible is the word of God?" is that if pressed, it is discovered they don't actually have a Bible.
Daniel: I have many Bibles.
comborico1611: Such is the case with a Christian that says the Bible exists in the Greek and Hebrew.
Daniel: Not that you need a Bible; you can look it up online. Most of mine are KJV but that's only because the nicest looking ones are usually KJV.
comborico1611: As I mentioned earlier, there are varying discrepancies in Greek manuscripts. So-called Vaticanus, Sinaiticus, and Majority Text.
Daniel: My favorite is a KJV, leather bound zipper pocket edition. Well, KJV has errors.
comborico1611: So there is no perfect word of God? (on earth)
Daniel: Yes there is.
comborico1611: What is its name?
Daniel: The Word of God.
comborico1611: NIV, ESV?
Daniel: No, those also have errors.
comborico1611: Which Greek is the correct one?
Daniel: http://atruechurch.info/kjv.html
comborico1611: No anwer? See you believe in a mythical Word of God that does not exist, except in your imagination. To even answer my question, you would require more knowledge of history. Now, for me personally, it took two things to bring me to the truth that the KJV is the word of God. One: the wonderful fruit of those which promote KJV-Onlyism. Two: A history lesson that took some time.
Daniel: Did you see I linked an article?
comborico1611: No.
Daniel: I don't need knowledge of extra-biblical history.
comborico1611: You should't. But for me, I wanted that.
Daniel:

By what Biblical standard are the KJV translators and their translation (1611) exalted above the English translators and their translations before them (e.g. Great 1539, Geneva 1560, Bishops' 1568)? By what Biblical standard (Matthew 7:2?xxxii) are the KJV translators and their translation exalted above the English translators and their translations after them? By what Biblical standard are the KJV translators and their translation exalted above any individual translator and his translation at any time, in the past, now, or in the future (e.g. Wycliffe 1394, Tyndale 1531, Coverdale 1535, Matthew 1537, Webster 1833, Robert Young [YLT] 1862, Jay P. Green 1985, or you or I)?

comborico1611: But for you Biblical means a language you don't know. So you need extra-biblical for there are more than one ancient Greek manuscript and language lessons, as well.
Daniel: I don't need anything extra-biblical. You can learn Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic from the scripture alone.
comborico1611: I'm here to engage your mind. Not to be directed to someone else's mind.
Daniel: I am of the same mind as that other person.xxxiii
comborico1611: You believe things you cannot answer. Anyways, I will leave now.
comborico1611 leaves the room.
Daniel: Weird.

  1. Ephesians 2:
    6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,

  2. Luke 13:
    28 There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, and yourselves thrust out.


  3. Darwin: In regards to Luke 13:28, there is nothing special in the Greek. The comma is put there by the translators, who, by the way, were not godly men (historically speaking). People claim they were, but if history is accurate, they were caught in the prevailing false Christianity of their day (as is virtually everyone today is). But, those who think they were godly men are themselves caught in false Christianity, so, of course, they will think those KJV translators were godly as well. They are "undiscerning" (Romans 1:31) and see not the "times" we are in (2 Timothy 3:1f).

    Also, the wording in Luke 13:28 is not so demanding that it would dictate there are no exceptions. In other words, the wording is not such that it explicitly says every last prophet is in the kingdom. No more so than Joshua's statements, for example, in Mark 10:11-12 & Luke 16:18 demand no exceptions, for they surely do allow for exceptions, even though Joshua makes it sound like there are none (Matthew 5:32; 19:9).

  4. 1 Samuel 10:
    10 When they came there to the hill, there was a group of prophets to meet him; then the Spirit of God came upon him, and he prophesied among them. 11 And it happened, when all who knew him formerly saw that he indeed prophesied among the prophets, that the people said to one another, “What is this that has come upon the son of Kish? Is Saul also among the prophets?”

  5. 1 Corinthians 14:
    31 For you can all prophesy one by one, that all may learn and all may be encouraged.

  6. 1 Corinthians 12:
    29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Are all workers of miracles?

  7. Luke 22:
    64 And having blindfolded Him, they struck Him on the face and asked Him, saying, “Prophesy! Who is the one who struck You?”

  8. From our article on Solomon:
    Some might argue, "Doesn't the Lord say in 2 Samuel 7:15, "My mercy shall not depart from him?" Indeed it does, and it goes on to say, "as I took it from Saul" (2 Samuel 7:15). The Lord took the kingdom entirely from Saul (1 Samuel 13:13-14; 1 Samuel 15:28) and killed him (1 Chronicles 10:13-14). He did not deal with Solomon in this way. He chastened Solomon (2 Samuel 7:14) with adversaries (1 Kings 11:14-25), but He did not take the kingdom away from him in his days (1 Kings 11:11-12), nor did He take it away from him entirely, as He did with Saul. The Lord left the southern kingdom to his son, Rehoboam (1 Kings 11:34). There is also no record of the Lord killing Solomon, as He did Saul.18

    and

    18. Of course, everyone who dies, dies by the hand of God (Deuteronomy 32:39; Romans 11:36). Yet, Scripture does not record the Lord killing Solomon for any particular sin(s), as it does with Saul (1 Chronicles 10:13-14).

  9. See previous footnote.

  10. Darwin: Oh, as far as Solomon is concerned: I don't know if he would be called a prophet. But, he is definitely called a holy man of God (2 Peter 1:20-21), because he wrote Scripture. But we know, one can be holy and end up in hell (Hebrews 10:26-29 "by which he was sanctified" = "by which he WAS holy").

    Also, it was in question at the time (and never answered), if Saul was among the prophets or not.

  11. Apparently it's a common assumption that Solomon is a prophet; probably based on the fact that he wrote Scripture. But, I can't find any verse in particular indicating this to be the case.
  12. In the chat "room." This particular one has a few other users that rarely speak.
  13. Philippians 3:
    16 Nevertheless, to the degree that we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us be of the same mind.


  14. Darwin: Key verse when talking about Galatians: "You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace" (Galatians 5:4). He calls the ones who have fallen for the heresy not saved here. He calls the others "sons of God" = saved (e.g. Romans 8:14).

    A very important distinction when talking about false teachers is the difference between the kind he is under (Steve Anderson) and one among true saints (true believers). His context is an entirely false religion. All those involved are lost (John 10:5). They are on a broad way (Matthew 7:13-14).

    A false teacher among the saints (true believers) is in the context of being in the Truth (not a false religion), the narrow way (Matthew 7:13-14), and there is someone there propagating falsehood. That's Galatians, and as I said above, those who fell for it were lost (Galatians 5:4).

    Ephesians 4:14 shows true believes may be "tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting." Believers will struggle, "grope" (Acts 17:27), and cry out for understanding (Proverbs 2:1-12). But, the sheep won't take heed (John 10:5). They will contend for the faith (Jude 3) and expose the false (1 Timothy 6:3-5; Ephesians 5:11), as we saw about a year ago with Casey and Dave's folly.

  15. Galatians 1:
    6 I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel,

  16. Galatians 4:
    6 And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying out, “Abba, Father!”

  17. Galatians 4:
    12 Brethren, I urge you to become like me, for I became like you. You have not injured me at all.

  18. Galatians 5:
    10 I have confidence in you, in the Lord, that you will have no other mind; but he who troubles you shall bear his judgment, whoever he is.

  19. Galatians 5:
    12 I could wish that those who trouble you would even cut themselves off!

  20. John 3:
    16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

  21. James 2:
    21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

    25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?

    26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

  22. Revelation 2:
    4 Nevertheless I have this against you, that you have left your first love.

  23. 2 Timothy 2:
    13 If we are faithless,
    He remains faithful;
    He cannot deny Himself.

  24. This is an example of "philosophy and empty deceit" and relying on one's own understanding.
  25. John 5:
    24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

  26. 1 Corinthians 11:
    19 For there must also be factions among you, that those who are approved may be recognized among you.

  27. Romans 8:
    29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.

  28. From our article on suicide:
    Some might argue, "What about Samson? He committed suicide." Samson's "suicide" was actually an act of war, as he killed three thousand Philistines in his vengeance upon them (Judges 16:28-30). He died in his effort to kill others, as he said, "Let me die with the Philistines!" (Judges 16:30). It was not, as a typical suicide of our day, because of a lack of hope, or a deranged mind. He died with the Philistines to "take vengeance on the Philistines" for his two eyes (Judges 16:28). Plus, this was the only choice he had, to kill them as he did.

  29. Genesis 6:
    2 that the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves of all whom they chose.

  30. Galatians 1:
    2 and all the brethren who are with me,

    To the churches of Galatia:

  31. Matthew 7:
    6 “Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces.

  32. Matthew 7:
    2 For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you.

  33. 2 Corinthians 13:
    11 Finally, brethren, farewell. Become complete. Be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace will be with you.

    Philippians 2:

    2 fulfill my joy by being like-minded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.

    1 Peter 3:

    8 Finally, all of you be of one mind, having compassion for one another; love as brothers, be tenderhearted, be courteous;

Leave a Reply

Your words may be altered or altogether purged in accordance with my preference to abstain from publishing statements that may be unnecessarily offensive to other readers. Your criticism is welcome. Your name and website are optional. Some HTML tags are allowed.