Daniel P. Barron

show me the light, by all means, but later

Monday, April 16, 2018

Here’s a followup to the Darwin Fish conversation, posted more for my other readershipi than the usual:

trinque: danielpbarron: you go to Darwin_Fish's church? doesn't seem like a half-bad guy.
trinque: pretty great name for a pastor though.
trinque: if usglandia were populated with these christians rather than the others, it'd be *far* more tolerable. I've always gotten along with them, because the skull contents tend to be orderly, even if they originate at "because the book"
mircea_popescu: trinque, "go to church" doesn't begin to describe it. here's the story as condensed by intelii :
mircea_popescu: 1. there's a large, seinfeld-style (why did that guy make a bn ? was it because he was funny, sigma funny != sigma money ? or was it becauyse he put all his effort into powerwashing any "controversial" anything from everything about him, sigma pantsuit ~= sigma money ?) church in socal ("grace community church"), like ten thousand others all over the us ("new religion revival or w/e the fuck, protestand heresysnake eating its tail forever).
mircea_popescu: 2. this item went through 4-year leadership until announted the current head (a certain macarthur fellow). he was 30ish at the time (and is 80ish now).
mircea_popescu: 3. darwin fish spent a decade, up until macarthur was ~50, in that church (after some other wrangling, mormons, whatever). then suddenly, as he himself reached 30, there was a major "time for my own church" moment. except, of course, nobody gave HIM the bn-dollar moneymaker. any they even told him why : he's way the fuck too cool for it, or as joe pesci put it, "that was the last fucking time...."
mircea_popescu: 4. he spent some time wrangling around the edges of this, words were exchanged, on the solid footing of complete misunderstanding : on one hand, "i am cool therefore wtf" ; on the other hand "dude, we're in the business of frantic activity as a cover for impotence, wtf is wrong with you".
mircea_popescu: 5. fast forward TWO DECADES. the guy lives with a small group in nature's own poverty in rural ok, then 5.a. refuses ~7 grand windfall on principle grounds but 5.b. does actually show up, ie, his refusal isn't the common "nyah nyah nyah can't hear anything" sort.
trinque: even comes across as sane but humble
mircea_popescu: if he's putting up an act it's like the most disciplined, dedicated acting i've seen.
mircea_popescu: but anyway, the intricate details of the history of the interaction between him and that behemoth of inanity are literally worth the study. very clear cut teardrop diamond of issues surroundant male inheritance in pantsuitland.
mircea_popescu: the reasonable expectation is that he'd have descended into madness by now ; which is the root impetuus of why the discussion even took place. "i wonder how the hell this guy hasn't shot anyone".
mircea_popescu exposed the hand because danielpbarron doth have a knack for ferreting out interesting cases, so a sort of "here you go in exchange".
mircea_popescu: but a word to the wise : all the details aside, dear kids who dream of "revolutionizing" and "entrepreneur culture" and so on and so forth generally "usa-usa-rarara-techblabla" : it did not work for david fish,iii EVEN IN THE NINETIES.
mircea_popescu: and it won't work for you. not just because you're late to the game, they're about to put out the lights. it wouldn't have worked for you in the 90s, only, "surprised by wealth" half-stories & assorted gargle notwithstanding.
trinque: yeah, I'd say he probably already collected on the order of as many "actual christians" as could be found, even if the bar you're using is literacy
mircea_popescu: trinque, this is a difficult point to delve into, so i'll just concede it for expediency.
danielpbarron: work in what sense? he cares only about the Bible. still true today as it was then
mircea_popescu: in the other sense.
trinque concedes it's a bias of his own, left the church young on the basis of "magic book didn't prevent lying shitbags from infecting the magic book building"
danielpbarron: he does not expect a large following, and even prays to NOT be rich
mircea_popescu: trinque, no wot, no shoes, no service.
trinque: this before even evaluating whether the magic happenings in the book were credible
trinque: aha
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron, you know that jewish thing, "if wealth is a curse let god strike me down with it, and may i never recover"
danielpbarron: !~bible pro 30:8
jhvh1: danielpbarron: [KJV] Proverbs 30:8 :: Remove far from me vanity and lies: give me neither poverty nor riches; feed me with food convenient for me:
mircea_popescu: trinque, his other misfortune is of course environmental hazards. strikes me as a clever fellow who'd have benefitted immensely by spending his youth among people who could read the original greek texts, rather than in the mindless hive of pests "quoting" bits at each other. the functional illiteracy of the protestant church crowd wrt classic languages is patently offensive. picture "security expert" conversant in php yet unable to use a terminal and you've just about got it.
danielpbarron: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-16#1800300 << he's not the leader (anymore) ever since one of his daughters fell away from the faith
a111: Logged on 2018-04-16 18:39 trinque: pretty great name for a pastor though.
mircea_popescu: "oh, so and so term means bla bla" motherfuckers, makes my skin crawl just thinking about it.
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron, who is ?
danielpbarron: !~bible tit 1:5-6
jhvh1: danielpbarron: [KJV] Titus 1:5 :: For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee:
jhvh1: danielpbarron: [KJV] Titus 1:6 :: If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly.
danielpbarron: mircea_popescu, darwin
mircea_popescu: yes but if he is no longer the head then who is ?
danielpbarron: mircea_popescu, re greek texts, drawin can read greek hebrew and aramaic, and is working on his own translation of the Bible
danielpbarron: ah, nobody
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron, but the discussion was re his teens and early 20s.
danielpbarron: we could all have benefitted from starting what we do now, sooner
mircea_popescu: understand something : ancient languages are complex. reason 1 is http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-11#1697164 ; reason 2 is http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-21#1587276 ; add these together suddenly proceeding hermeneutically on pre-renaissance written matter is a life's work for immortal beings.
a111: Logged on 2017-08-11 18:37 mircea_popescu: this is how it manages the inapproximable "whisks" of meaning that latin-style then has so much trouble noting down.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-21 18:32 mircea_popescu: because no, words don't "have meanings". your meanings for ANY WORD are a function of ALL THE OTHER WORDS YOU KNOW. which is why my definitions regularily blow out english dictionaries, wikipedia and other sources of "wisdom" out of the water - i know more words, and in this knowledge i know all the words i know ~better~. infinitely and irreproducibly so.
mircea_popescu: i can also read phf's code, "can read" is a low standard in this context.
mircea_popescu: kinda why the original argument against "translating the scripture" is so strong. and yes it was a mistake.
danielpbarron: it was a mistake to translate?
mircea_popescu: yes.
danielpbarron: i think the kjv and nkjv are suitable english translations
danielpbarron: and darwin's even better
mircea_popescu: "suitable" may work in some contexts ; but in this one the word is already the seal of doom, you've lost.
danielpbarron: you don't need to read the Bible to believe it
trinque: danielpbarron: how can you judge that without reading (and loading the time's literary graph into skull) the ancient original
mircea_popescu: yes ; but you do need to read it to read it.
trinque: or call it cultural graph, broader
danielpbarron: God has caused me to believe it, against my will
danielpbarron: !~bible psa 97:6
jhvh1: danielpbarron: [KJV] Psalms 97:6 :: The heavens declare his righteousness, and all the people see his glory.
danielpbarron: do i need to speak heavenese to hear this declaration?
mircea_popescu: nope.
mircea_popescu: were the book written in this heavenly tongue, it'd be immediately readable i guess. but it factually is not.
mircea_popescu: anyway, the argument against translating is twofold, and leaving the first obvious fold aside (hey, perfect translations may be impossible, but good translations do exist, and that's the job of the exceptional person, wtf else -- anania did it in romanian, and others did it before, it is not entirely impossible) : it introduces the NOTION of translation. i dunno if you're familiar with the meaning of that term, the original meaning, as captured in "traddutore, tradditore" or otherwise in english "conversion" as the form of theft.
danielpbarron: God chooses (before they are born) who will believe. If He wants you to be saved, He can do it whether you can read or not. He could miraculously make you literate, not that such a thing is even required
mircea_popescu: so then what's the use of these suitable substitutes ?
danielpbarron: i'd like to eventually get Darwin's translation up as a html rather than the pdf it's currently in
danielpbarron: it's helpful to have translations when contending with others
danielpbarron: we come accross people all the time who claim to believe in God, and then deny what their own translation says about Him
mircea_popescu: so what do you need a translation for then, just use their string as-is.
danielpbarron: contending also takes place within the church
danielpbarron: when you rebuke a fellow, you should have scripture to cite
mircea_popescu: yes, but it is never because of a misread and always because of an erection. referring to the sources never fixed the latter.
danielpbarron: if someone won't consent to wholesome words, they are without faith and should be cast out
mircea_popescu: why ?
danielpbarron:

1 Timothy 6:3 If anyone teaches otherwise and does not consent to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which accords with godliness, 4 he is proud, knowing nothing, but is obsessed with disputes and arguments over words, from which come envy, strife, reviling, evil suspicions, 5 useless wranglings[a] of men of corrupt minds and destitute of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain. From such withdraw yourself.

mircea_popescu: are you stuck maintaining god's wot now ? why, because he's too stupid to know how to work the rating system ?
mircea_popescu: there's space enough between "from such withdraw yourself" and "and should be cast out".
mircea_popescu: compare and contrast the handling of #b-a / #trilema splitiv and rando "incorrectly minded" etc. withdraw yourself from egregious idiocy of a pernicious bent, sure. but...
danielpbarron: if there is one person in the fellow that won't consent to wholesome words, and everyone else withdraws, is that not like casting the one out?
mircea_popescu: it is, if it were what occured. most of the time it's not what occured.
danielpbarron: it's happened plenty of times herev
mircea_popescu: sure, here. i meant with the religious practice abroad.
danielpbarron: the false churches are wicked in everything they do, even when what they do is good
danielpbarron:

1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

danielpbarron: re: maintaining God's WoT
danielpbarron:

Daniel 4:37 37 Now I, Nebuchadnezzar, praise and extol and honor the King of heaven, all of whose works are truth, and His ways justice. And those who walk in pride He is able to put down.

danielpbarron: ^ there is hope for even you mircea_popescu, for there have been rulers of the world who praised the true God
mircea_popescu: lol well that's good news.
mircea_popescu: shall i quote thomas at you or no need ?
danielpbarron: i don't see the point, as it's not part of the Bible
mircea_popescu: you know, "show me the light, by all means, but later"
danielpbarron:

Mark 10:25 It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God. 26 And they were greatly astonished, saying among themselves, "Who then can be saved?" 27 But Jesus looked at them and said, "With men it is impossible, but not with God; for with God all things are possible."

  1. Fellow brothers and sisters in Christ.
  2. Presumably, slave girls in his harem.
  3. Whether intentionally or not, Mircea has a knack for mispelling the names of people he is using as a bad example.
  4. See, the logs:

    mircea_popescu: upon consideration, i see no reason to continue supporting or otherwise encourage kakobrekla's bizarre worldview. on the contrary, i view further involvement with the nonsense as considerable moral hazard, and a miserable thing to do altogether.
    mircea_popescu: there's absolutely no place in the future, or among civilised people, for this "hi i r zuckerberg and i ~created~ facebook" thing. i can see how it continues the "oh, mp is raining money, let me not get in his way" thing from before, but consistency in poltroonism does not enact poltroonism as an acceptable life philosophy.
    mircea_popescu: i can readily understand that fiatism has been for all and sundry the unique way of life, since "forever" ; i can see how the shit is well ensconced and difficult to wash off. nevertheless, loyalty to a group, as opposed to the individual, is still socialism, as much so as either GOP or NSDAP ever were. preserve that and you preserve it all.
    mircea_popescu: vaguely defining the group in question, ad-hoc or after the fact, does not resolve the problem, one's still a poltroon. appeals to "science" or "law" or whatever other conveniently vague abstraction still doesn't resolve the fact that one's placed himself on the hostis humani generis side of the debate.
    mircea_popescu: and so, this is the end for this particular irc channel as a venue for tmsr. the irc festivities are moving over to #trilema ; with a more selective lordship list and improved tools all around. you're welcome to join - but leave the fiat mind behind, lest it drag you too back down into the swamp.

  5. I meant in the fellowship, in A True Church, but I intentionally left it there, because it also applies to “here” in #trilema/#bitcoin-assets/#bitcoin-otc.

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