Daniel P. Barron

A conversation between Darwin Fish and Mircea Popescu

Monday, April 16, 2018

Darwin Fish is the author of atruechurch.info and Mircea Popescu is the author of trilema.com. The former is an expert on the Bible, and the latter an expert on Bitcoin.

As aluded to in the logs,i from the Republic, some parallel conversationii lines removed for clarity:

danielpbarron: !!up Darwin_Fish
deedbot: Darwin_Fish voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: hi there Darwin_Fish
Darwin_Fish: hello
mircea_popescu: ever been on irc before ?
Darwin_Fish: no
Darwin_Fish: never done much online like this
mircea_popescu: do you know about rsa and cryptography and so on ?
Darwin_Fish: a little from daniel
mircea_popescu: i'll propose something to you : inasmuch as one is in a better position understanding god for god, rather than understanding god for what some guy said, cryptography is the most direct path to divinity.
Darwin_Fish: i didn't know cryptography was a religion
mircea_popescu: but we're discussing theology not religion. cryptography is eminently not a religion. in fact, i'm the frirst one to have ever said anything remotely like the foregoing, and it's giving crypto people hives just reading it.
Darwin_Fish: what's the difference between theology and religion?
mircea_popescu: Darwin_Fish, you ever heard that quip, that "in theory, there's no difference between theory and practice ; in practice, there is" ? "theologically, there's no difference between theology and religion. but religiously..."
Darwin_Fish: sorry, don't follow the logic. If there is no difference, what's the difference.
Darwin_Fish: ?
mircea_popescu: well, have you ever met a religious dude who didn't SAY, and broadly think, they're following god ?
mircea_popescu: they all say it. but do they really ? so what's the difference!
Darwin_Fish: I consider an atheist religious. But, of course there are plenty of people who say and don't do
mircea_popescu: right.
Darwin_Fish: By the way, God doesn't believe in atheists
mircea_popescu: hehe, i might've read that somewhere.
Darwin_Fish: Romans 1:18-32iii
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron, how did that work,
danielpbarron: !~bible rom 1:18-32
jhvh1: danielpbarron: [KJV] Romans 1:18 :: For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
jhvh1: danielpbarron: [KJV] Romans 1:19 :: Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
jhvh1: danielpbarron: [KJV] Romans 1:20 :: For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
jhvh1: danielpbarron: [KJV] Romans 1:21 :: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
jhvh1: danielpbarron: [KJV] Romans 1:22 :: Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
jhvh1: danielpbarron: ERROR: I have more than 5 matching passages from your query (10 left). Please be more specific.
mircea_popescu: shinohai, one line only!!1iv
Darwin_Fish:

For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, (Rom 1:20 NKJ)

mircea_popescu: Darwin_Fish, anyway, theology is the study of divinity as a theoretical possibility ; religion is the study of historical human practice. the catholics resolve this problem by claiming (falsely) that they were specifically promised god will preserve their religion in theology. this claim has all the strength of their claim constantine deeded them the world.
Darwin_Fish: I ok, I understand your distinction now
Darwin_Fish: I often refer to religion as you described it
mircea_popescu: Darwin_Fish, good. so what would you say is the fundamental thing in children that eventually, but necessarily, leads them to at the very least question the possibility of divinity, if not outright seek it ?
Darwin_Fish:

That was the true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world. (Joh 1:9 NKJ)

mircea_popescu: yes, but i mean in practical terms.
Darwin_Fish: God makes Himself known to every human on the planet
Darwin_Fish: in their hearts
Darwin_Fish: You don't have to have a Bible
mircea_popescu: yes. but i propose to you the instrument thereby is the infantile tendency to question "why ?". that's what they do, all day long, at least the brighter ones.
Darwin_Fish: to know some of the concepts therein
mircea_popescu: eventually they give up, mostly because adults are TERRIBLE at answering why ; and also because they get distraught, and the children dun wanna bother them. so it gets rubbed out.
mircea_popescu: nevertheless... without the why...
Darwin_Fish: oh yes, God has made children inquisitive
trinque: "knock and the door shall be opened" eh?
trinque dusts off the cobwebs in that wing of his skull
mircea_popescu: Darwin_Fish, and that is the substance of my proposition earlier. there is no place known to me where the most refined and annoying whys can be stated quite like in this field.
Darwin_Fish: It takes patience to answer why repeatedly. It also takes understanding, which most people don't have
Darwin_Fish: Because, if you keep asking why, it always leads to God
mircea_popescu: Darwin_Fish, quite, "why ?" is an escalator, every successive why needs exponentially more resources to answer.
Darwin_Fish: Correct
Darwin_Fish: That's why it always leads to God
Darwin_Fish: He is the answer to every why
Darwin_Fish:

For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. (Col 1:16 NKJ)

mircea_popescu: Darwin_Fish, check it out, agreement and harmony. now satisfy my curiosity : what happened with al soto ?
Darwin_Fish:

upholding all things by the word of His power, (Heb 1:3 NKJ)

Darwin_Fish:

For of Him and through Him and to Him are all things, to whom be glory forever. (Rom 11:36 NKJ)

Darwin_Fish:

But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner-- not even to eat with such a person. (1Co 5:11 NKJ)

Darwin_Fish: He was a covetous man
mircea_popescu: Darwin_Fish, that doesn't tell me much, does it ?
Darwin_Fish: He couldn't stop spending money he shouldn't be spending (i.e. creating debt)
Darwin_Fish:

Let your conduct be without covetousness; be content with such things as you have. (Heb 13:5 NKJ)

Darwin_Fish:

Owe no one anything except to love one another, (Rom 13:8 NKJ)

mircea_popescu: Darwin_Fish, so basically he ran up the church / your ccs,v and eventually it had to come to an end ?
Darwin_Fish: No, he was spending his money
Darwin_Fish: but creating debt, at least in his own mind
mircea_popescu: Darwin_Fish, how does that work though ? i mean...
Darwin_Fish: He thought he was going to owe the gov thousands of dollars
Darwin_Fish: but kept spending money
Darwin_Fish: thus "creating" debt to the gov
mircea_popescu: but how do you know what he thought ? "the devil himself knows not the tought of man" etc.
Darwin_Fish: he told us
Darwin_Fish: He knew about it for months
mircea_popescu: Darwin_Fish, maybe he was confused.
Darwin_Fish: He was actually incorrect
Darwin_Fish: He actually didn't end up owing anything, so he said later
mircea_popescu: Darwin_Fish, isn't it silly, to ruin a long standing relationship like that, over what was in the end a small error ?
Darwin_Fish: I had hoped to bring him back in the church, but now he hates my guts
Darwin_Fish: He faults me for being involved in the Ron Paul movement
Darwin_Fish: Which fault I agree with, in part
mircea_popescu: Darwin_Fish, tell me about that ?
mircea_popescu: !!up Darwin_Fish
deedbot: Darwin_Fish voiced for 30 minutes.
Darwin_Fish: Ron Paul believes prostitution should be legal. I turned a blind eye to that, but I should not have
mircea_popescu: Darwin_Fish, prostitution is legal here (costa rica). are they all going to hell ?
Darwin_Fish: at least in my own conscience
Darwin_Fish: I would not condemn someone else it
Darwin_Fish: for it
mircea_popescu: Darwin_Fish, what is the problem with prostitution ?
Darwin_Fish: Everyone who practices prostitution and does not repent, yes
mircea_popescu: the whores ~and~ the johnsvi ?
Darwin_Fish:

Do not prostitute your daughter, to cause her to be a harlot, lest the land fall into harlotry, and the land become full of wickedness. (Lev 19:29 NKJ)

Darwin_Fish:

Yes, But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death." (Rev 21:8 NKJ)

Darwin_Fish: That is sexual immorality
Darwin_Fish: God makes the rules.
mircea_popescu: Darwin_Fish, but is it immoral for both the harlot and the guy paying her ?
Darwin_Fish: Yes
mircea_popescu: but... listen. isn't this the whole entire proposition of manhood, both biologically and socio-historically, "go ye and make a pile of resources so females may be attracted thereby" ?
mircea_popescu: and not just human manhood, at that, ~all species.
Darwin_Fish:

Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ? Shall I then take the members of Christ and make them members of a harlot? Certainly not! 16 Or do you not know that he who is joined to a harlot is one body with her? For "the two," He says, "shall become one flesh." 17 But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him.
18 Flee sexual immorality. (1Co 6:15-18 NKJ)

Darwin_Fish: Not sure if I understand your question
Darwin_Fish: sorry
mircea_popescu: Darwin_Fish, well, which part of it ?
Darwin_Fish: If I understand your question, the answer is no. This is God's purpose:

And He has made from one blood every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, and has determined their preappointed times and the boundaries of their dwellings, 27 "so that they should seek the Lord, in the hope that they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us; 28 "for in Him we live and move and have our being, (Act 17:26-28 NKJ)

mircea_popescu: Darwin_Fish, is not man made for work ?
Darwin_Fish: Work is part of the curse, Gen 3
mircea_popescu: so work is a curse, and not substantial to mankind ?
Darwin_Fish:

Cursed is the ground for your sake;
In toil you shall eat of it
All the days of your life.
18 Both thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you,
And you shall eat the herb of the field.
19 In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread
Till you return to the ground,
For out of it you were taken;
For dust you are,
And to dust you shall return." (Gen 3:17-19 NKJ)

Darwin_Fish:

He who has a slack hand becomes poor, But the hand of the diligent makes rich. (Pro 10:4 NKJ)

Darwin_Fish:

The rich and the poor have this in common, The LORD is the maker of them all. (Pro 22:2 NKJ)

mircea_popescu: Darwin_Fish, so you don't believe there's a sexual motivation in work ?
Darwin_Fish:

The person who labors, labors for himself, For his hungry mouth drives him on. (Pro 16:26 NKJ)

mircea_popescu: the hungry mouth of the wife and the wails of starving children notwithstanding ?
Darwin_Fish: No, a man can certainly be motivated by that
mircea_popescu: Darwin_Fish, but is this motivation evil ?
Darwin_Fish: No
Darwin_Fish: the sexual drive is not evil
mircea_popescu: so it is not evil for man to work so that a woman can eat ?
Darwin_Fish: of course not
mircea_popescu: Darwin_Fish, so then what's the problem with whoredom. that they came up with their own arrangement, rather than using a wedding ?
Darwin_Fish: God says it's evil. That's all it ever comes down to
Darwin_Fish: When you are discussing something being evil, it's always because God says so
Darwin_Fish: Otherwise, there is no morality whatsoever
mircea_popescu: Darwin_Fish, there's no deductive component in establishing what is evil ?
Darwin_Fish: Nothing other than God declaring it is so
mircea_popescu: Darwin_Fish, but your source for what god declared is a book which a guy wrote and some other guys maybe didn't alter (too much).
Darwin_Fish: There is no absolute on morality accept God Himself
Darwin_Fish: It was written by about 40 men
Darwin_Fish: Via the Jews
mircea_popescu: right.
mircea_popescu: Darwin_Fish, i wonder, are you willing to read a story i wrote tell me what you think ?
Darwin_Fish: Sure
mircea_popescu: it's not terribly long.
mircea_popescu: Darwin_Fish, http://trilema.com/2015/the-rabbi-and-the-ewe/
Darwin_Fish: It reminds me of Job 12
Darwin_Fish:

7 "But now ask the beasts, and they will teach you; And the birds of the air, and they will tell you; 8 Or speak to the earth, and it will teach you; And the fish of the sea will explain to you. 9 Who among all these does not know That the hand of the LORD has done this, 10 In whose hand is the life of every living thing, And the breath of all mankind? (Job 12:7-10 NKJ)

mircea_popescu: well, so did you like it ?
Darwin_Fish: To be frank, it was a little hard to follow. But, that could be a comment on my own intellect
mircea_popescu: who knows these things.
mircea_popescu: so what's life like, in rural oklahoma ?
Darwin_Fish: Pleasant
Darwin_Fish: Very thankful to be here
Darwin_Fish: more freedom than CA
Darwin_Fish: Better laws, except for potvii
Darwin_Fish: No building codes
mircea_popescu: have you ever considered starting a blog ? it's really not that hard, and i mean look at danielpbarron : http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-16#1799742
a111: Logged on 2018-04-16 14:06

danielpbarron: got a message from my former employer that they "Have a service" and were notified of my blog post. hows that for seo? i'm not even trying to game the search

Darwin_Fish: no building permits, freedom to homeschool
danielpbarron: !!up Darwin_Fish
deedbot: Darwin_Fish voiced for 30 minutes.
Darwin_Fish: Although, I prefer CA for the abundance of big events to attend
Darwin_Fish: and preach at
mircea_popescu: does it ever do anything ? people convert ?
Darwin_Fish: On very rare occasion
mircea_popescu: so maybe you're not missing all that much anyway.
Darwin_Fish: People don't believe the Bible, even those who claim to
Darwin_Fish: No, I like doing it despite the outcome
mircea_popescu: Darwin_Fish, consider this place,viii chicks regularily come asking to write strings on their tits, and it's not even in california!
Darwin_Fish: they turn me off
mircea_popescu: Darwin_Fish, ok, but the point is ~they come seeking~. numbers for their tits!
Darwin_Fish: Even before I believed the Bible
Darwin_Fish: Like I said, that's not appealing to me
mircea_popescu: hm.
Darwin_Fish: Those kind of chicks carry crabs, diseases, etc..
mircea_popescu: but the point was the seeking not the chicks.
Darwin_Fish: I've seen that plenty as a Probation Officer years ago
mircea_popescu: o yeah, that must've been some experience.
Darwin_Fish: It was. I saw alot of things that were kind of mind-blowing
mircea_popescu: make a blog, write them up. i'd read!
Darwin_Fish: Kids pounding their head against a cement floor as hard as they can
mircea_popescu: why ?
Darwin_Fish: Because of the utter frustration. The system is unjust and oppressive
mircea_popescu: myeah.
douchebag: !!up CindyBix
deedbot: CindyB voiced for 30 minutes.
Darwin_Fish: It is not just to treat people like animals and cage them up
CindyB: !!register http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/CCsjH/?raw=truex
deedbot: E4D372C98806FA0DC4AF87C7C0CFA01EBCC4105F registered as CindyB.
CindyB: Im here to show my titsxi
Darwin_Fish: That's too bad. May God have mercy on you before it is too late
mircea_popescu: CindyB, e638a18a. you got half hour.
douchebag: !!up StephanieCx
deedbot: StephanieCx voiced for 30 minutes.
StephanieCx: im here to show tits
danielpbarron: suspicious timing, but then i'm a bit of a cynicxii
mircea_popescu: StephanieCx, 3224f5e6. half hour.
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron, he's evidently herding the kittens. but then again...
Darwin_Fish: mircea - why do you call yourselves a terrorists org?xiii
mircea_popescu: Darwin_Fish, http://trilema.com/2013/stage-n-bitcoin-exists/#selection-45.0-45.165
Darwin_Fish: ok, thanks. I'll read it
mircea_popescu: Darwin_Fish, another advantage of having a blog is that you don't have to type everything by hand all the time. meet new people, have ready library of explanations and references. i find it QUITE empowering.
Darwin_Fish: Yeah, it's not a bad idea.
StephanieCx: !!register http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/5Sxj1/?raw=true
deedbot: 0A521A1FE1684061A47C9D87AE55F16801C3812C registered as StephanieCx.
CindyB: I messed up writing it the first time rly hard 2 write it backwards
CindyB: https://i.imgur.com/*******.jpg
CindyB: i had to rewrite
StephanieCx: https://i.imgur.com/*******.jpg
Darwin_Fish: I think I get the general point. "Terrorist" has become quite the catch all word and word used to criminalize a person or org.
Darwin_Fish:

Yet, "That which has been is what will be, That which is done is what will be done, And there is nothing new under the sun." (Ecc 1:9 NKJ)

mircea_popescu: Darwin_Fish, as i said before, "if it was 1800 it'd be 'witches'."
Darwin_Fish: I can't say you are wrong on that
mircea_popescu: lol check out the kaballah. also, who's bobby ?xiv
mircea_popescu: !!pay CindyB 0.02
Darwin_Fish: Except, I think it was more like 1600, historically speaking
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/LTz9y/?raw=true
mircea_popescu: !!pay StephanieCx 0.02
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/reFGY/?raw=true
StephanieCx: he is my ex boyfriend
Darwin_Fish: Bobby? I am not well educated on the Kaballah
mircea_popescu: StephanieCx, that's how it always works huh.
mircea_popescu: Darwin_Fish, you gotta look at the images for the comment to make sense.
danielpbarron: lol
StephanieCx: dont tattoo lovers names
Darwin_Fish: oh, images of tits?
mircea_popescu: !!up Darwin_Fish
deedbot: Darwin_Fish voiced for 30 minutes.
trinque: when we get to meth witches from crackheads, at least make 'em do the pen scribble on the forehead
mircea_popescu: nodehelp,xv Darwin_Fish, consider making a rsa key and registering it with deedbot, then you can self voice rather than having to do this every half hour.
douchebag: if you pay extra i can get these whores to write wherever
trinque: douchebag: don't misunderstand it for interest
douchebag: I'm thinking more of entertainment value
ben_vulpes: douchebag: go, entertain
Darwin_Fish: If that is all, I will be leaving. Thanks for the discourse.
mircea_popescu: Darwin_Fish, have a great time!
Darwin_Fish: Thanks. May the Lord give you all His understanding (Pro 2:1-6).xvi
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron, did you have any fun ?
danielpbarron: yep
mircea_popescu: yeah me too.


  1. mircea_popescu: in other news : darwin fish, of fabled atruechurch group, agreed to do a q/a session for a coupla hours tomorrow / next week sometime.
    mircea_popescu: don't kite it when he shows up, i want to have an actual conversation with the fellow.
    BingoBoingo: Aite
    ascii_lander: oh hey nifty
    mircea_popescu: ascii_lander, amusingly, i offered a coin as per apparent tradition, but he didn't want to be paid for ministrywork or such.

  2. Interestingly enough, it went on from the moment Darwin joined till when he left. There was a lull afterwards.

    Ephesians 6:10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might. 11 Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. 12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. 13 Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

  3. NKJV:

    Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.

    24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, 25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

    26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.

    28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, 30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful; 32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.

  4. shinohai maintains the bot named jhvh1, and is apparently in violation of the channel’s bot spec that a command should not return more than one line.
  5. Credit card statement.Credit cards.
  6. Johns are the customers of the prostitutes. As in, John Doe.
  7. Cannabis.
  8. As in, consider hanging around here for opportunities to preach.
  9. This particular parallel conversation left in for relevance to the topic at hand.
  10. Link not linkified because it is temporary, and there’s not much to see here anyway. It’s just an ASCII-armored public key for the bot to grab.
  11. From I’ll pay for your tits on Trilema:

    I'm giving away 0.02 BTC, ie two bitcents to any human female that

    Has previously posted nudie selfshots on the web. You will be required to prove this by supplying a link.
    Comes to #trilema and verifies her identitty. You will be given a short text and expected to post a pic of your tits decorated with it within some sort of reasonable timeframe, so come prepared.
    This isn't some sort of [scam] - I've to date given 100x as much for similar causes. This is the genuine article - you don't have to be the first, or the "best" or whatever else, all you have to do is satisfy a. and b. above. Maybe not the easiest money you'll ever make, but definitely not the hardest. It shouldn't really take you more than fifteen minutes (and if it does, this is probably not for you - not that anything else is).

    This isn't one-time offer either - I have some ideas for the implementation therewhich I need a bunch of eager young sluts. Come help me, not only is it a lot of scandalous, licentious fun, but it'll prolly make your life.

  12. A reference to this:

    mircea_popescu: o wow, so you were going to brazil and then ended up living with the true church folk ? i had [no idea]!
    danielpbarron: yeah i got my visa and everything
    mircea_popescu: hm. i can't help but read this passage as "on my way i got waylaid by these fellows who saw i had dough and well..." ; but then again i'm a cynical sort.

  13. A reference to the channel topic:

    Topic for #trilema: You have reached the public forum of The Most Serene Republic, a terrorist organisation dedicated to the creation of a safe space for the elites to productively defect to, leaving the pantsuit stranded behind. If you'd like to help see http://trilema.com/2016/how-to-participate-in-the-affairs-of-the-most-serene-republic/ . This channel is logged.

  14. A reference to one of the tit pics.
  15. A guy in one of the excised parallel conversations.
  16. NKJV:

    Proverbs 2 My son, if you receive my words,
    And treasure my commands within you,
    2 So that you incline your ear to wisdom,
    And apply your heart to understanding;
    3 Yes, if you cry out for discernment,
    And lift up your voice for understanding,
    4 If you seek her as silver,
    And search for her as for hidden treasures;
    5 Then you will understand the fear of the Lord,
    And find the knowledge of God.
    6 For the Lord gives wisdom;
    From His mouth come knowledge and understanding;

2 Responses

  1. Jeff Owens

    just astounding stuff here. Thx for blogging it, Daniel.

  2. You’re welcome!

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