Daniel P. Barron

He also caused me to not believe in him.

January 6, 2019

alexandertheweird: Hi im 13 i am being brought up in a christian home and havent really questioned my faith til very recently and i started researching the matter and discovered an endless amount of contradictions and moral and practical arguments against gods existence my family is heavily religious and believes in a young earth and are conspiracy nuts in general and even told me in church that i should be thankful that i know about christ and dont have to go to hell which is tellong to say the least i dont know if i should come out whats your advice

Daniel: My advice is for you to fear the true God of the Bible and not one of the many false gods taught in most "christian" churches.

alexandertheweird: So ive read your site a bit and notices that they talk about fearing god. Firstly how can we both be terrified of something and genuinely love it without faking it especially when your presented with a choice (ultimatum really ) of following a contradictory book which forbids you to wear certain types of cloth which is proposterous or dying in eternal hell fire.

Also may i ask how i can believe in sonething that makes preposterous claims and provides no evidence for it, not even the slightest. And i cant choose what i believe belief is like taste i cant willingly change my beliefs much as you cant change what food you like more

Daniel:

Firstly how can we both be terrified of something and genuinely love it without faking it

Love Him because He shows mercy.

which forbids you to wear certain types of cloth which is proposterous or dying in eternal hell fire.

That is not true. You will burn in hell for not believing, not for the law.

provides no evidence for it

The evidence is for all to see.

And i cant choose what i believe

Correct. You will only believe if God makes you believe.

alexandertheweird: Mercy... that would be like me pointing a gun to your head exclaiming for you to love me or i will shoot you it and calling it mercy. Secondly creation does not in any way prove god its not like everything has a stamp on it. And with we will burn in hell for not obeying the law can i ask you 1 question where you will either contradict yourself or you will double down will homosexuals burn in hell for being homosexuals even if they believed in your doctrine

And lastly if i can only believe if only god can make me believe it means that he can willingly not do that and condem me to eternal torture

And dont interpret me as being angry or anything just want to talk about counter arguments

Daniel:

Mercy... that would be like me pointing a gun to your head exclaiming for you to love me or i will shoot you it and calling it mercy.

If you don't shoot, yeah.i

will homosexuals burn in hell for being homosexuals even if they believed in your doctrine

Someone who believes in the Bible will not be a homosexual.

if only god can make me believe it means that he can willingly not do that and condem me to eternal torture

Correct. How terrifying is that?

alexandertheweird: Firstly sexuality is not a choice like belief and the question is not really answered 2. So he is doing that to atleast 5 billion people for either not having the correct god or people that dont believe in him because they simply dont have the choice of what they believe in and have little to no proof of gods existence while having alot to the contrary 3. Technically it falls under mercy yes sorry for that but it would still not be justified to do such a thing

Daniel: Neither are a choice. God causes all things. In fact, God causes people to be homosexual because they don't believe. He says that all people do have proof and are without excuse. All these points are covered in Romans 1:

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. 17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “The just shall live by faith.”

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.

24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, 25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, 30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful; 32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.

alexandertheweird: So if god causes all things then doesnt that mean that he caused me to go to hell caused murders to murder and rapists to rape and so on and if he did in fact cause everything he also caused me to not believe in him. Also what do you say of people are homosexuals and are Christians. Lastly what proof do i have of gods existence if you are saying that it is because of all the things around me, then that is a really lazy argument since there is nothing in creation that points to a creator

Daniel: Yes. He causes even the evil things. (Isaiah 45:7ii) He causes most people to not believe. (Romans 9:22iii) There are no homosexual Christians; if they believed, they would repent and turn from destruction. (1 Corinthians 6:9-11iv) The Bible says you do have proof, but your foolish heart is darkened. (Romans 1:21v)

alexandertheweird: If i had proof that god existed why would i condem my self to hell and if he causes or as the verse says makes evil isnt he then evil? And if homosexuals even did repent for being homosexual what would that change they would still be homosexual

Daniel: You don't condemn yourself; God does.vi You have been shown the truth, but God makes you suppress it, so that He may show His wrath against you.

If you make a chair, are you a chair? Neither is God evil for making evil.

If you repent of sin, you turn away from it, and you are washed of it. A repentant homosexual is no longer a homosexual; they will no longer practice the act, and if they are tempted to, they will repent further.

alexandertheweird: If i make and manufacture guns for isis doesnt that give me some of the blame3 for whT they are doing? And why does god suppress the truth its like he is attempting to sentence me to hell. Lastly most homosexuals dont have sex and they can still not control their orientation...what if the roles were reversed and you as a straight person was condemned for being straight

Daniel: Who are you to find fault with God? He has caused you to do even this. (Romans 9:19-21vii) He does it because He wants to show His wrath. (Romans 9:22viii)

Indeed homosexuals cannot control their orientation, but God can. He has given them a debased mind. (Romans 1:28ix)

I do not need roles reversed to understand; I am not without sin. I have had to repent of what seems to be impossible to do. And every day I have to repent more. (Luke 9:23x)

alexandertheweird: So he causes me to go to hell out of spite?

Who are you to find fault with God? He has caused you to do even this. (Romans 9:19-21) He does it because He wants to show His wrath.

And you said earlier that the law does not matter much because jesus excused us of it and you say that homosexuality is wrong because god doesnt like it (even though he makes them become it) but their isnt a verse in the new testament that is against homosexuality so by your logic it shouldnt matter

Daniel: Heh, actually there is. 1 Corinthians 6:

9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites,

I shared this verse with you already but I guess you didn't bother to look it up.

alexandertheweird: Lol sorry forgot that corinthians is in the new testament lol thanks for valling me out on that

But anyways what makes you believe in god

Daniel: God makes me believe in God.

alexandertheweird: But what do you have evidence wise that makes you believe

Daniel: Besides the heavens declaring the glory of God? (Psalm 97:6xi) Nothing; it doesn't make any sense.

alexandertheweird: Its not like the heavens have a sign saying god is real. And you say that god causes wars natural disaters and such but i ask why does he do such evil how can a good god permit it?

Daniel:

Its not like the heavens have a sign saying god is real.

They do. (Psalm 19:1xii)

why does he do such evil how can a good god permit it?

To show His wrath. (Romans 9:22xiii)

alexandertheweird: In what way do they show him your not answering me about that

And why would a good god show his wrath to people who are innocent and even his own?

Daniel: We aren't innocent. (Romans 3:23xiv)

alexandertheweird: Maite you cant use circular reasoning...anyway some of us are like toddlers and children and if god is so righteous he wouldnt show his wrath

Daniel: I will only use scripture to make my argument.

alexandertheweird: Lol im blonde meant to say some of us are toddlers and children who are innocent why would god put his wrath on them

Daniel: They aren’t innocent. (Romans 3:23)

alexandertheweird: They havent they have just been born what sins have they committed

Daniel: I don’t know, except that the Bible says they have sinned.xv

alexandertheweird: Well then the bible should back up its claims wouldnt you say

Daniel: I say you need to repent.

alexandertheweird: Would love to...if it did anything


  1. Darwin: Not a good analogy.

  2. Isaiah 45:
    7 I form the light and create darkness,
    I make peace and create calamity;
    I, the Lord, do all these things.’

  3. Romans 9:
    22 What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction,

  4. 1 Corinthians 6:
    9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

  5. Romans 1:
    21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.

  6. Romans 2:
    1 Therefore you are inexcusable, O man, whoever you are who judge, for in whatever you judge another you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things.

    Jeremiah 44:

    7 “Now therefore, thus says the Lord, the God of hosts, the God of Israel: ‘Why do you commit this great evil against yourselves, to cut off from you man and woman, child and infant, out of Judah, leaving none to remain, 8 in that you provoke Me to wrath with the works of your hands, burning incense to other gods in the land of Egypt where you have gone to dwell, that you may cut yourselves off and be a curse and a reproach among all the nations of the earth?

    Jeremiah 2:

    17 Have you not brought this on yourself,
    In that you have forsaken the Lord your God
    When He led you in the way?

  7. Romans 9:
    19 You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?” 20 But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, “Why have you made me like this?” 21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?

  8. Romans 9:
    22 What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction,

  9. Romans 1:
    28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting;

  10. Luke 9:
    23 Then He said to them all, “If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow Me.

  11. Psalm 97:
    6 The heavens declare His righteousness,
    And all the peoples see His glory.

  12. Psalm 19:
    1 The heavens declare the glory of God;
    And the firmament shows His handiwork.

  13. Romans 9:
    22 What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction,

  14. Romans 3:
    23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,


  15. Darwin: Lying. Psalm 58:
    3 The wicked are estranged from the womb;
    They go astray as soon as they are born, speaking lies.

4 Responses

  1. [...] I don't know. On God causing people to sin: Yes. He causes even the evil things. (Isaiah 45:7) He causes most people to not believe. (Romans [...]

  2. [...] The same water that causes a guilty woman to rot will have no effect on an innocent woman. ↩He also caused me to not believe in him. ↩New King James Version. ↩From God's Holy Word, a translation by Darwin Fish. [...]

  3. [...] the freaks that come from the genetic engineering. A mermaid with a fishes head and people legs. He also caused me to not believe in him. ↩Deuteronomy 22: 13 “If any man takes a wife, and goes in to her, and detests her, 14 and [...]

  4. [...] Daniel: You can only believe if God causes you to believe. [...]

Leave a Reply

Your words may be altered or altogether purged in accordance with my preference to abstain from publishing statements that may be unnecessarily offensive to other readers. Your criticism is welcome. Your name and website are optional. Some HTML tags are allowed.