A few people asked me about topics pertaining to free will and atheism.
How does God love someone if he created them for eternal damnation and torment?
God didn’t create you to be gay. If you are gay however, you're gay so you can be changed from that and glorify God.
God does indeed cause people to be homosexuals; He causes all things. i
God created me in his image. Therefore, god is gay.
We were created in the image of God, but God is not like us in our flaws. ii
Created him to be gay and caused him to be gay are two different things to me.
Some are created "to be gay" meaning they will not repent and they will die in this lifestyle and go to hell.
Being gay is not a flaw.
They won't repent because they choose not to by the end of time. They are accountable for that.
They were chosen to not repent. iii
But does that truly mean that everyone else cannot repent and believe?
Yes, it means that they cannot be "healed." iv
What are they even here for then? The people not chosen. Not us who believe and repent, and get baptized.
They are created as "vessels of wrath." v They are "created for the day of doom." vi
Which is because they are here to kill us. That's what wickedness would be no?
God kills us -- be it by the hand of the wicked or the righteous.
Is it really simply to create people to die and be damned to hell?
Yes, but there are few who He creates for mercy and glory. vii
That's not just.
Who are you to say what is just? viii
God created us with the truth on our hearts so that we may recognize what is just.
Your heart is full of evil. ix You do not do good. x You do not understand. xi
Is he speaking of the people who like you said are doomed, or like every single man including himself?
He is speaking about all men, both the elect and the doomed.
Are we not Children of God though?
Yes, xii so?
Doesn't that make us a new creation in Christ? We seek God no?
God causes a few elect people to believe and to seek God. He does this against their will. xiii
Instead you have all these denominations that all use the same bible but disagree on everything.
Most churches lead to hell, and it is because of the differences that they teach.
Are you saying that some people don't have free will?
How do these churches get to different conclusions despite using the same book?
God deceives them and causes them to not believe the same book.
Why would god deceive them?
So that they will not believe, and be destroyed.
So god sins.
No.
Why would he want them to be destroyed?
To show His power and wrath. v
Deception is a sin.
God does not lie, xiv but He causes all things xv which includes the deception of mankind. xvi
I thought he wants us to believe in him and live for god so we could live aside him in heaven?
He does.
How can you say that god does not lie but he deceives?
When God says something, it is true by the nature of Him saying it. He speaks things into existence. xvii But He can also cause people to believe lies.
If god deceives, how can we know that the bible isn't a deception?
Everyone knows that the Bible is true, xviii but God causes many to suppress this truth. xix
No, not everyone knows or believes that the bible is true. In fact that's just your opinion. How can you say that?
Scripture says that everyone is without excuse because they know, despite the fact that they also suppress the knowledge of this truth in unrighteousness.
God caused men to write falsehoods into the bible in order to deceive them into hell.
God preserves His Word, even in the hands of the wicked.
How can you say that the scripture is not a deception in itself?
No, scripture is not god. Scripture is written by humans, and humans are sinful.
God caused humans to write down the correct thing so that we have it to read today, despite those humans being sinful.
How can you say a book is god?
Scripture says so. xx
How can you know that he had god write down the correct thing?
God says so. xxi
Not everything the bible says is true. People have manipulated the bible many times in the past.
Though many manipulate and twist Scripture, it is still preserved for the few to hear it.
What do you mean, "it is preserved?"
I mean that it can be heard. All can hear it, the correct Word of God. That doesn't mean it's always heard in one particular language. You can hear it from the heavens alone.
Where is the original bible; the one that didn't get manipulated and is still preserved so a few can hear it?
Check out our church's translation.
The gospels were all likely written after the people died who they are named after. How do we know that they weren't deceived into writing the wrong thing?
God causes all things, and says He preserves His Word. Surely He can cause the correct things to be written, even by the hand of those who hate Him.
What would you have an unbeliever do then? Someone who wants to be saved.
Nobody wants to be saved, but I encourage you to check out "What Must I Do To Be Saved?"
How can you say that nobody wants to be saved? He literally asked you how he can save himself.
Scripture says that nobody seeks God. xi
You make it seem like there is no point in what we do.
I have shown you where Scripture describes the point.
You're literally depending on the bible which is simply words. How can you trust scripture?
God causes me to trust and believe in Him.
I understand we should endure, but what point is there telling people to believe?
God tells believers and causes believers to warn others, even though many will not take heed.
Who created god? Something can't come from nothing.
He is from everlasting. xxii But He also creates Himself. For example: He is Jerusalem; He is heaven.
A true christian cannot sin? xxiii
A true christian may still sin, but they will confess and repent when they do.
If you ever sin, you are not born of god.
If you live in the sin and do not repent of it, then you are not born of God.
But if you repent and then sin again...?
You repent again. xxiv
God created himself out of nothing, when he didn't even exist.
He always existed. There was no "nothing" state before Him.
How can god create himself when he was nothing. You said he created himself and nothing existed before him.
God became flesh. xxv He existed before this event, and even in this "new" state He has always existed. xxvi His death has always been. xxvii
- Romans 11:
36 For of Him and through Him and to Him are all things, to whom be glory forever. Amen.
- Numbers 23:
19 “God is not a man, that He should lie,
Nor a son of man, that He should repent.
Has He said, and will He not do?
Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good? - John 15:
16 You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you.
- Matthew 13:
10 And the disciples came and said to Him, “Why do You speak to them in parables?”
11 He answered and said to them, “Because it has been given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given. 12 For whoever has, to him more will be given, and he will have abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. 13 Therefore I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. 14 And in them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled, which says:
‘Hearing you will hear and shall not understand,
And seeing you will see and not perceive;
15 For the hearts of this people have grown dull.
Their ears are hard of hearing,
And their eyes they have closed,
Lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears,
Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn,
So that I should heal them.’ - Romans 9:
22 What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction,
- Proverbs 16:
4 The Lord has made all for Himself,
Yes, even the wicked for the day of doom. - Romans 9:
23 and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory,
- Romans 9:
14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not! 15 For He says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion.” 16 So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to the Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth.” 18 Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens.
19 You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?” 20 But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, “Why have you made me like this?” 21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?
- Genesis 6:
5 Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
- Psalm 14:
3 They have all turned aside,
They have together become corrupt;
There is none who does good,
No, not one. - Romans 3:
11 There is none who understands;
There is none who seeks after God. - Psalm 82:
6 I said, “You are gods,
And all of you are children of the Most High. - Romans 9:
16 So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy.
Proverbs 17:
11 An evil man seeks only rebellion;
Therefore a cruel messenger will be sent against him.
John 6:
44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me drags him; and I will raise him up at the last day.
Ephesians 2:
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
- Titus 1:
2 in hope of eternal life which God, who cannot lie, promised before time began,
- Romans 11:36 ^
- 1 John 5:
19 We know that we are of God, and the whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one.
- Hebrews 1:
3 who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,
- Romans 1:
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.
- Matthew 7:
13 “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. 14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.
- John 1:
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
- Psalm 12:
6 The words of the Lord are pure words,
Like silver tried in a furnace of earth,
Purified seven times.
7 You shall keep them, O Lord,
You shall preserve them from this generation forever. - Psalm 93:
2 Your throne is established from of old;
You are from everlasting. - citing 1 John 5:
18 We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him.
- Matthew 18:
21 Then Peter came to Him and said, “Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? Up to seven times?”
22 Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven. 23 Therefore the kingdom of heaven is like a certain king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants. 24 And when he had begun to settle accounts, one was brought to him who owed him ten thousand talents. 25 But as he was not able to pay, his master commanded that he be sold, with his wife and children and all that he had, and that payment be made. 26 The servant therefore fell down before him, saying, ‘Master, have patience with me, and I will pay you all.’ 27 Then the master of that servant was moved with compassion, released him, and forgave him the debt.
- John 1:
14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
- Colossians 1:
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
- Revelation 13:
8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
[...] If you were to see a genuine supernatural event, you would not believe in God unless He has chosen you to be saved. I am not interested in getting into a logical discussion where the terms are that I cannot rely on Scripture. [...]