Daniel P. Barron

Why would there be any reason to doubt the existence of celibate homosexuals?

Monday, February 4, 2019

This log has been modified for spelling and formatting. It has been reviewed by Darwin Fish.

Daniel: Catholicism leads to hell.

Connor: That website is just garbage and I can't believe I wasted my time reading it. The church has never been in favor of suicide. It's possible that somebody who kills themselves is too mentally ill to make decisions in which case they wouldn't be as culpable in the same way a patient with dementia isn't responsible for things they babble. That's a different argument than suicide is okay.

Also the website makes no distinction between practicing homosexuals and those who remain celibate.

Daniel: You are responsible no matter your mental state, and a celibate homosexual is still thinking evil, no? We are even responsible for our dreams.

Romans 1:

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting;

Connor: You can't control whether you have a fleeting thought but you can control whether you dwell on it.

Daniel: Of course, but a homosexual must repent. A "celibate homosexual" (if there even is such a thing) is not saved.

Connor: Yeah but what if they repent but still feel attracted to men?

Daniel: They still have a "debased mind."

StarHunter: Why would there be any reason to doubt the existence of celibate homosexuals?

Daniel: If you aren't having sex with the same sex, you aren't homosexual. I guess they could still be "effeminate" which is also bad, and leads to hell. But the Bible doesn't describe any "sexual orientations."

Sanctus: That's not true. Homosexuality is about attractions one has, which is why it's an orientation and not an action. So, a person can be homosexual or any other orientation, even heterosexual, without ever engaging in sexual relations. On that front I will say, the Roman Catholic Church is certainly no friend to LGBTi folks. At least, that is my perception and the perception of many LGBT folks I know, many of whom know first hand.

Daniel: The Bible doesn't say that.

Sanctus: Again, the Bible doesn't say a lot of things. The Bible says nothing about South America, also, but I
don't disbelieve in South America.

Daniel: In the old testament it's specifically defined as someone who actually engages in the act. In the new testament it also does this, but it also has a word that gets translated to homosexual in the NKJVii that the KJV translates to "effeminate."iii

Sanctus: Because homosexual is an English word more recently coined to talk about the concept. The Bible doesn't talk about the concept because it isn't concerned with it. It is concerned, though, with the act.
Connor: So we agree then the act is bad but having the attraction is not a sin.
Sanctus: I wouldn't say that myself, but I can see why that is a natural conclusion of certain hermeneutics.

  1. Lesbian, Gay, Bi-sexual, Tran-sexual.
  2. 1 Corinthians 6:
    9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites,

  3. 1 Corinthians 6:
    9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

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