This log is a continuation of a previous article.
GoddessUbasti: What's your religious background? And then, how did you particularly zone in on your church?
Daniel: Grew up atheist with atheist parents. I found out about them during the Ron Paul 2012 campaign.
GoddessUbasti: How'd that happen?
Daniel: I was really into Ron Paul and so were they, and two of the girls from the church were doing a live-stream show that got pretty popular.
Daniel: And they'd end each one with a warning and the website URL. i And then I met up with them in Florida for the RNC. ii But I didn't join till like six years later (about a year ago).
GoddessUbasti: So politics introduced you to their church. Interesting.
Daniel: Yes, but we aren't into politics anymore. Although we still would vote for one-off issues like recently medical cannabis in Oklahoma. (we are in favor of and voted yes on)
GoddessUbasti: And you're for recreational drug use, too, right?
Daniel: Yes, the Bible doesn't forbid it. iii Except that we should obey the law. iv But I would vote to legalize any and all drugs.
GoddessUbasti: You seem politically to be libertarian?
Daniel: Yes, we are very much like libertarians, except we are against: prostitution, adultery, abortion, and homosexuality.
^Peter^: And that drugs effect the temple of the Holy spirit positively or negatively .... v
Daniel: They can be positive.
GoddessUbasti: Libertarians would be for all of those things, though, so you're libertarian-lite maybe.
Daniel: Alt-libertarian perhaps.
GoddessUbasti: Daniel, why do you seek to escape reality?
^Peter^: Most recreational use I would hesitate to call positive.
Daniel: GoddessUbasti, huh? I don't? I mean I do hate this world and the people in it.. I look forward to being in the kingdom of God. But the Bible commands us to be sober minded vi and have self control. vii
^Peter^: Moderation in all things is a good standard.
Daniel: There is a time for everything. (Ecclesiastes 3:1 viii)
ljrbot: Ecclesiastes 3:1 -- All things have their season, and in their times all things pass under heaven.
Daniel: If you need surgery, do you not take drugs to lose consciousness?
^Peter^: Yes, a time for murder? ix
Daniel:Even that, I suppose.
^Peter^: Medical is not recreational.
GoddessUbasti: Daniel, you don't see that you've created a religion tailored to what Daniel wants to believe in. But you do not follow the Truth of God.
Daniel: Well it's also not wrong to use drugs just for the enjoyment of it either. And I don't want the government to say what counts as medical and what doesn't.
^Peter^: Within limits.
Daniel: They still say cannabis has "no medical use." The Bible never forbids drugs, and the things it says about moderation should not be laws enforced by the state.
^Peter^: Some not all say cannabis is medical, and many users have proven this.
Daniel: So? They are perishing anyway. (Proverbs 31:6 x)
ljrbot: Proverbs 31:6 -- Give strong drink to them that are sad; and wine to them that are grieved in mind:
^Peter^: state laws are to control the out of control use of drugs. xi
Daniel: If someone doesn't believe, let them get drunk! Let them get high, do all drugs to excess. The state cannot enforce belief in the Bible.
GoddessUbasti: Yes, as Peter said, Daniel see it as that with many things, those who cannot control themselves ruin it for others.
Daniel: It's a matter of conscience to use them in a moderate way.
GoddessUbasti: That's life. Life isn't fair.
Daniel: What do they ruin for me? What harm is it to me if someone abuses themselves with drugs?
GoddessUbasti: It's interesting that you have strong political views that you've molded a religion around. Your concern is not to follow what the Bible genuinely indicates on how to live our lives, but you look for ways that you can twist it to justify your political views.
^Peter^: No, it is not for us to abuse drugs and alcohol, not just for ourselves, but it also adversely effects the community, and puts an unnecessary strain on the health system.
Daniel: Show me where I am wrong with scripture.
GoddessUbasti: I've not usually encountered someone like you before.
Daniel: ^Peter^, well..I'm also against all welfare.xii
GoddessUbasti: Daniel, this world is unfair, and when people make poor choices, those poor choices affect all of us. xiii
^Peter^: Daniel, welfare is what scripture advocates.
Daniel: Let them abuse themselves and then let them get help only if someone wants to help them, not because we are all compelled by law to help. ^Peter^, show me where.
GoddessUbasti: We do show you, and you see it through your biased lenses.
^Peter^: We are instructed to look after the poor and needy.
Daniel: Is it not possible that you have the bias?
GoddessUbasti: Because you want to believe as Daniel wants to believe.
Daniel: ^Peter^, okay. But where does it say this should be law?
GoddessUbasti: I only care about what God's truth is, not injecting my own beliefs into it.
Daniel: Again it is a matter of a believer's conscience. Just like drug and alcohol use.
GoddessUbasti: Government exists to protect its citizens.
^Peter^: In the bible, and our laws follow the bible ethic.
Daniel: The Bible says the government is to keep evil in check. ^Peter^, barely.
GoddessUbasti: What drugs have done in this country is evil.
Daniel: No, what the government has done in response to a non existent "drug problem" is what is evil. Putting people in prison over something that only harmed themselves. Further harming them.
GoddessUbasti: We are not to harm ourselves. Also, when people love you, and you harm yourself, it causes them pain as well. And when you harm yourself, it uses community resources to take care of you. You have an effect on others, not only yourself. xiv
Daniel: This is such a silly argument. If I do anything that troubles someone I should be put in prison? My parents are troubled that I believe the Bible... It shouldn't take community resources unless people voluntarily help. The government should take very little taxes, and use them to punish: murderers, adulterers, homosexuals, thieves, etc..
GoddessUbasti: You'd have a theocracy, eh. xv Except..for whatever weird reason, you think drugs are fine. xvi Everything else you acknowledge is wrong in your list there. But not drugs. So strange.
Daniel: The Bible doesn't forbid them! You are the strange one! Saying something is evil that the Bible does not call evil.
^Peter^: The community is just that! A commune, and help others in the group. You are just a user and not a community if you think only of your 'needs'.
Daniel: ^Peter^, I help who I help. It is not a good deed if the government forces me to help.
GoddessUbasti: Well put, ^Peter^. Daniel, it's ideal to stay away from recreational drugs. That's just reality.
Daniel: I've done plenty, even crack xvii and LSD. xviii
^Peter^: Daniel, you are incompetent to help on the scale needed, that is why the community as a whole (government) is there helping as best it can.
GoddessUbasti: Daniel, you sure love drugs. :(
Daniel: I do not love drugs.
^Peter^: Daniel, if you believe the scripture, you have an obligation to help those in need.
Daniel: ^Peter^, yes, I help. But the Bible says government is to stop evil. (Romans 13:3 xix) Not to force help. xx
ljrbot: Romans 13:3 -- For princes are not a terror to the good work, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? Do that which is good: and thou shalt have praise from the same.
GoddessUbasti: https://www.gotquestions.org/sin-drugs.html.
Daniel: lol, Is gotquestions a cult!?
GoddessUbasti: Not at all. You tailor your beliefs to what Daniel wants to believe. If you care about truth, then you'd realize that. And you'd seek to stop.
Daniel: I believe what the Bible says. You add to it. Stop what?
GoddessUbasti: Stop having the religion of Daniel.
Daniel: Except that there are others who agree with me.
^Peter^: haha
GoddessUbasti: Majority does not make right, Daniel.
^Peter^: Lots do not.
Daniel: lol We are not a majority by any means. We are like ... 30 people.
GoddessUbasti: I know. Was the concept. That's like how many the WBC xxi has. Hmmm. Daniel, if you're an intellectually honest person who genuinely seeks truth, you'll read my post. :D
Daniel: And I've been reading the articles you link. If it wasn't obvious from me posting my commentary of them in here.
To be continued...
- "Universal Resource Locator." aka a "link." ^
- "Republican National Convention." Where delegates elected from the primary polls go to vote on who will be the Republican nominee for president. ^
- See "Drugs, a Biblical Perspective." ^
- Romans 13:
1 Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God.
- 1 Corinthians 6:
19 Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own?
- Titus 2:
6 Likewise, exhort the young men to be sober-minded,
- Galatians 5:
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.
- Ecclesiastes 3:
1 To everything there is a season,
A time for every purpose under heaven:
Darwin: "A time to kill, ..." (Ecclesiastes 3:3) I don't know about murder. The list in Ecclesiastes does not say there is a time to do evil before God. All the things listed in Ecclesiastes 3 are all lawful at their right time.
- Proverbs 31:
6 Give strong drink to him who is perishing,
And wine to those who are bitter of heart.
Darwin: It's not working. It's out of control. Drugs are even in prisons.
Darwin: Scripture isn't.
- This is a bad argument. The Bible does indeed say some things harm "all of us." Those things are fornication and adultery. Not drug abuse. Leviticus 18:
24 ‘Do not defile yourselves with any of these things; for by all these the nations are defiled, which I am casting out before you.
- How is this not a case of warping scripture to fit a political view?? The very thing she accused me of doing. ^
- Yes! So? And isn't that what you were just advocating? ^
- Yes, so weird that I don't add to the word of God. Actually this is weird. Most people do it. ^
- The smokeable form of cocaine. ^
- "Lysergic acid diethylamide." The psychedic drug often administered via tiny squares of blotter paper. It lasts for many hours and causes perceived time dilation and visual hallucinations. ^
- Romans 13:
3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same.
Darwin: Actually, in the law, God "forced" (made it law) the Israelites to help the poor.
Deuteronomy 15:
7 “If there is among you a poor man of your brethren, within any of the gates in your land which the Lord your God is giving you, you shall not harden your heart nor shut your hand from your poor brother, 8 but you shall open your hand wide to him and willingly lend him sufficient for his need, whatever he needs. 9 Beware lest there be a wicked thought in your heart, saying, ‘The seventh year, the year of release, is at hand,’ and your eye be evil against your poor brother and you give him nothing, and he cry out to the Lord against you, and it become sin among you. 10 You shall surely give to him, and your heart should not be grieved when you give to him, because for this thing the Lord your God will bless you in all your works and in all to which you put your hand. 11 For the poor will never cease from the land; therefore I command you, saying, ‘You shall open your hand wide to your brother, to your poor and your needy, in your land.’
Exodus 22:
25 “If you lend money to any of My people who are poor among you, you shall not be like a moneylender to him; you shall not charge him interest. 26 If you ever take your neighbor’s garment as a pledge, you shall return it to him before the sun goes down. 27 For that is his only covering, it is his garment for his skin. What will he sleep in? And it will be that when he cries to Me, I will hear, for I am gracious.
Exodus 23:
11 but the seventh year you shall let it rest and lie fallow, that the poor of your people may eat; and what they leave, the beasts of the field may eat. In like manner you shall do with your vineyard and your olive grove.
Leviticus 19:
10 And you shall not glean your vineyard, nor shall you gather every grape of your vineyard; you shall leave them for the poor and the stranger: I am the Lord your God.
Leviticus 23:
22 ‘When you reap the harvest of your land, you shall not wholly reap the corners of your field when you reap, nor shall you gather any gleaning from your harvest. You shall leave them for the poor and for the stranger: I am the Lord your God.’ ”
Leviticus 25:
35 ‘If one of your brethren becomes poor, and falls into poverty among you, then you shall help him, like a stranger or a sojourner, that he may live with you. 36 Take no usury or interest from him; but fear your God, that your brother may live with you. 37 You shall not lend him your money for usury, nor lend him your food at a profit.
Deuteronomy 24:
15 Each day you shall give him his wages, and not let the sun go down on it, for he is poor and has set his heart on it; lest he cry out against you to the Lord, and it be sin to you.
- "Westboro Baptist Church." ^
[...] log is a continuation of a previous article, and it has been modified for spelling and formatting. GoddessUbasti: Also, is that your real name? [...]