Don't fall for the "empty deceit" i proposed by this guy.
- If god creates the universe, there's a difference in god's state before creation and after creation.
- God created the universe.
- There was a difference in god's state. (i.e. god changed)
Reason for 1: law of non-contradiction. God who created the universe does not equal not god who created the universe. Reason for 2: theistic assumption.
God changes state from our point of view as mortal men experiencing time in a particular way. He "became flesh." ii To God, "a thousand years" "are like yesterday." iii He is "slain from the foundation of the world," iv although this was observed by men at an uncertain time in history. v
Can you use reason other than scripture? I'm not a Christian; quoting scripture isn't convincing to me. I presented a logical argument hoping you either disagree with the premises or find issues with logic.
If you were to see a genuine supernatural event, you would not believe in God vi unless He has chosen you to be saved. vii I am not interested in getting into a logical discussion where the terms are that I cannot rely on Scripture.
You could simply disagree with the premises. It's not like you accepted them yet. You could use the Bible to say why you accept or reject a premise. That's perfectly fine. It's deductive logic: if the premises are true and the argument is valid, you should accept the conclusion.
"Great is the mystery of godliness." viii Few have been "given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God." ix My answer is more complicated than a simple yes or no. God can create the heavens and the earth in such a way that He does not change x in the process. This is a mystery. At least in part, it is our difficulty in understanding of how time and eternity intersect; in time, God on earth did change. "Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and men." xi
- Colossians 2:
8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ.
- John 1:
14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
Bold added. ^
- Psalm 90:
4 For a thousand years in Your sight
Are like yesterday when it is past,
And like a watch in the night.Bold added. ^
- Revelation 13:
8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Bold added. ^
- That is, we don't know when the events in John 19 took place, relative to today.
29 Now a vessel full of sour wine was sitting there; and they filled a sponge with sour wine, put it on hyssop, and put it to His mouth. 30 So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, “It is finished!” And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.
Bold added.
We do know that it happened "in due time," as per Romans 5:
6 For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
Bold added.
We can calculate from Scripture that it took place about 4`150 years after creation. We know up to the time of Christ's coming, but we don't at what age He died. Likely, before He was 50. ^
- Luke 16:
31 But he said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.’ ”
Bold added. ^
- John 15:
16 You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you.
Bold added. ^
- 1 Timothy 3:
16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:
God was manifested in the flesh,
Justified in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Preached among the Gentiles,
Believed on in the world,
Received up in glory.Bold added. ^
- Mark 4:
11 And He said to them, “To you it has been given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God; but to those who are outside, all things come in parables,
Bold added. ^
- Malachi 3:
6 “For I am the Lord, I do not change; Therefore you are not consumed, O sons of Jacob.
Bold added.
Hebrews 13:
8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.
- Luke 2:52 ^