Daniel P. Barron

Here is the patience of the saints.

Monday, May 25, 2020 

A catholic thinks I should be more inclusive:

Condemning all other religions is not the way to bring people in.

I don't want to bring anyone in to fellowship that works in darkness. i

Having a self proclaimed saint: in my opinion this doesn't make sense because that means they are in heaven, so.. you can be here and there.

Where does Scripture say you can't be a saint on earth? Scripture calls all believers saints. ii

Do you believe men and women are equal, and why are Catholics wrong?

Men and women have different rules and roles, both being equal in Christ. iii Catholics are wrong on a great number of issues.

You said female teachers are false. Women can be right as well.

Scripture says leaders of churches must be men with one wife and multiple believing children. iv It says it's shameful for women to have authority over men.

The first point on the catholic thing is suicide. It is a mortal sin which cuts off relationship with God, but to be a mortal sin it must be serious, know it is wrong, and do it anyway. The point the church is making is people may not be able to be fully in control of them selves, i.e. drunk or have a mental illness. This they can't control and it often controls them; if you think they can control it... blatantly that's stupid.

A believer will have self-control. v Unbelievers might not. vi

The second point: muslims. We are just saying that they also believe in one God who made everything; not that they are right in every aspect. That is one thing we agree on.

The catholic church teaches that Islam and Catholicism are both about the God of Abraham. That is, that these different religions worship the same god. That said, the god of Catholicism had a son and is a Trinity. The god of Islam never had a son and is no Trinity. And there is more. They are not the same god, and neither one is the God of Abraham.

"Muslims make God a liar." (your website) This is not possible as man cannot change God; they have no power to do this. That's not how it works, so no...

We aren't saying men can change the real God. Muslims believe in a god that must be a liar. vii

You used 1 Timothy 4. viii This says that it can't be rejected, God made free will. Saying I won't go to heaven because I didn't want an apple is not how God intended anything.

Free will is a false doctrine as well.

No one is forced to become a priest, and married men can become priests after marriage if the spouse has died. It is a commitment between God and the priest, like any marriage; it is just to God and the church to love and serve as any marriage should be.

Your church forbids marriage to a certain group of people, which Scripture warns about.

Polygamy is not pushing for divorce; divorce is not a thing in Gods law, so if a man remarries then he is committing adultery.

Divorce was in fact governed in God's law.

If you look at Genesis 2:24: "Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh." Wife not wives. He took one rib. ix Consider the consequences revealed in Scripture in each of the following cases: Abraham—led to bitterness between Sarah and her maid, Hagar, x and the eventual dismissal of Hagar and Ishmael; xi Jacob—led to Rachel’s jealousy of Leah xii and to Joseph being betrayed xiii and sold by his half-brothers; xiv David—led to the rape of one of his daughters (Tamar) by one of his sons (Tamar’s half-brother Amnon) and Amnon’s subsequent murder by Tamar’s brother Absalom. xv

One marriage is between one man and one woman, but nowhere does Scripture prohibit a man from being party to multiple marriages. Your examples are not commandments against polygyny. The same could be said of monogamous marriages, that is, examples where things were bad. That doesn't prove it was wrong. Otherwise, by the same standard, monogamous marriage is wrong. The disciples even said, "If such is the case of the man with his wife, it is better not to marry." xvi

Solomon—his many wives “turned away his heart” from the Lord and to the worship of false gods (1 Kings 11:1–8). Just because the Bible records polygamous relationships does not mean that God approves of such things. Deuteronomy 17:17: "And he shall not acquire many wives for himself, lest his heart turn away, nor shall he acquire for himself excessive silver and gold." It leads to a split between man and God.

Solomon was indeed turned from the faith because of his many wives. But the command to not "multiply wives for himself" xvii was obeyed by David who had at least 20 wives. "David did what was right in the eyes of the Lord, and had not turned aside from anything that He commanded him all the days of his life." xviii Thus, God declares via David's example polygamy is "right in the eyes of the Lord." I also like Proverbs 18:22: "He who finds a wife finds a good thing, And obtains favor from the LORD."

Mental illness cannot be controlled.

God gives people mental illness. xix

Do you ask people to pray for you? "Brothers and sisters pray for me." That is what we are doing to saints; not praying to them but asking them to pray for us. We don't worship Mary. It is the same as saints.

I ask saints who are with me on earth, who I fellowship with in person.

Infant baptism is not taught for in the bible but not against.

There is no Scriptural reason to believe a baby is saved because water was sprinkled on it. Baptism is the result of a good conscience. xx

"He who finds a wife finds a good thing." A WIFE.

If you have a wife, and you find another wife, it is still a good thing.

'A' is singular.

If I have a wife, and I find another wife, is it a good thing?

No, because then it is adultery on the first.

You deny Proverbs 18:22 which says "He who finds a wife finds a good thing."

Again it is "a wife."

If I have zero wives and I find a wife, then I will have one wife. If I have one wife and I find a wife, then I will have two wives. If I have two wives and I find a wife, then I will have three wives. And so on... In this hypothetical, I will have found three good things.

That doesn't make sense. You still skipped over the adultery thing which is sex outside of the marriage. Even if the other is also a "wife."

Adultery is sex with another man's wife. xxi Fornication is sex outside of marriage. In the case of polygyny, a man is having sex with multiple women who are his wives and not another man's wives.

None of us are God; we won't know who is right till we are dead.

I know that I am right. You should make sure you are right too. xxii God has told us what is right and you don't believe Him. Moreover, once you are dead it's too late. xxiii

  1. Ephesians 5:

    11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them.


  2. Ephesians 4:

    12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ,

    Matthew 27:

    52 and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised;

    Acts 9:

    13 Then Ananias answered, “Lord, I have heard from many about this man, how much harm he has done to Your saints in Jerusalem.

    Romans 1:

    7 To all who are in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints:

    Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

    1 Corinthians 1:

    2 To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all who in every place call on the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

    Ephesians 1:

    1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God,

    To the saints who are in Ephesus, and faithful in Christ Jesus:

    Philippians 1:

    Paul and Timothy, bondservants of Jesus Christ,

    To all the saints in Christ Jesus who are in Philippi, with the bishops and deacons:

    Colossians 1:

    2 To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ who are in Colosse:

    Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

    Revelation 14:

    12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.


  3. Galatians 3:

    28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.


  4. Titus 1:

    6 if a man is blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of dissipation or insubordination.


  5. 2 Timothy 3:

    1 But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come: 2 For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3 unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, 4 traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away!


  6. Jeremiah 13:

    Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard its spots?
    Then may you also do good who are accustomed to do evil.


  7. 1 John 1:

    10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.


  8. 1 Timothy 4:

    Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 2 speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, 3 forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.


  9. Genesis 2:

    21 And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall on Adam, and he slept; and He took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh in its place. 22 Then the rib which the Lord God had taken from man He made into a woman, and He brought her to the man.


  10. Genesis 16:

    4 So he went in to Hagar, and she conceived. And when she saw that she had conceived, her mistress became despised in her eyes.


  11. Genesis 21:

    14 So Abraham rose early in the morning, and took bread and a skin of water; and putting it on her shoulder, he gave it and the boy to Hagar, and sent her away. Then she departed and wandered in the Wilderness of Beersheba.


  12. Genesis 30:

    1 Now when Rachel saw that she bore Jacob no children, Rachel envied her sister, and said to Jacob, “Give me children, or else I die!”


  13. Genesis 37:

    5 Now Joseph had a dream, and he told it to his brothers; and they hated him even more.


  14. Genesis 37:

    28 Then Midianite traders passed by; so the brothers pulled Joseph up and lifted him out of the pit, and sold him to the Ishmaelites for twenty shekels of silver. And they took Joseph to Egypt.


  15. 2 Samuel 13:

    21 But when King David heard of all these things, he was very angry. 22 And Absalom spoke to his brother Amnon neither good nor bad. For Absalom hated Amnon, because he had forced his sister Tamar.


  16. Matthew 19:10 ^
  17. Deuteronomy 17:

    17 Neither shall he multiply wives for himself, lest his heart turn away; nor shall he greatly multiply silver and gold for himself.


  18. 1 Kings 15:

    5 because David did what was right in the eyes of the Lord, and had not turned aside from anything that He commanded him all the days of his life, except in the matter of Uriah the Hittite.


  19. Romans 1:

    28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting;


  20. 1 Peter 3:

    21 There is also an antitype which now saves us—baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,


  21. Leviticus 20:

    10 ‘The man who commits adultery with another man’s wife, he who commits adultery with his neighbor’s wife, the adulterer and the adulteress, shall surely be put to death.


  22. 2 Peter 1:

    10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble;


  23. Hebrews 9:

    27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment,


2 Responses

  1. [...] You can know who is right, and if you wait till "the finish line" it will be too late. [...]

  2. [...] Except for me and the other saints in our church, and anyone else in the world who believes like us. [...]

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