huscarlaxe: I've been studying and I'm troubled by the treatment of slavery in the New Testament in particular Philemon. I realize the ethics of our civilization aren't necessarily correct. but the idea of owning something created in God's image strikes me as sacrilegious. Much less it doesn't seem to be showing any love like a Christian should. I would welcome any one's thoughts on this because it's been bothering me.
Daniel: What are the ethics of putting "something created in God's image" in a prison? The Bible never instructs us to have prisons. The more loving treatment of a criminal is to make them a slave to repay their victim. Most prisoners happily do free labor when it means they can go outside rather than staying in a cell.
TotesMessenger: I'm a bot, bleep, bloop. Someone has linked to this thread from another place:
brokehugs: Today I learned: Slavery rocks!stephoswalk: What about the slave's children, who were also slaves because they were born to a slave? What could a baby possibly do to require them to repay their victim?
Daniel: I don't know, but slaves are to be offered freedom after six years, i so I don't think it's much of an issue.
rob1sydney: Not women ii and not foreigners. So please answer the question as your looking like an apologist for slavery.
Daniel: Yes, I am pro-slavery.
rob1sydney: Fair enough. You are entitled to your view as long as you don’t act on it as it is illegal. Also, you should know your views isolate you from almost all humanity as we, see them as despicable and placing yourself above others.
Daniel: My point is slavery shouldn't be illegal. And yes I know my beliefs set me apart from this world. (Psalm 4:3 iii)
MalcontentMike:
And yes I know my beliefs set me apart from this world
They do. They make it clear that you have evil in your heart.
Daniel: Everyone does. (Genesis 6:5 iv)
MalcontentMike: Not like you, mate. Slavery is [very] evil, and you're evil in supporting it.
Daniel: The Bible doesn't call it evil.
MalcontentMike: Correct, it does not. It is evil, though.
Daniel: If the Bible doesn't call it evil, it isn't evil.
MalcontentMike: Is nothing new, created since the Bible was written, evil? What a silly position.
Daniel: There's nothing new. (Ecclesiastes 1:9 v)
MalcontentMike: Wow. What a misuse of Solomon's wisdom.
rob1sydney: Yes I fully understand your view. You think some people are better than others, males should be dominant, women submissive, slavery is good, sexism is right. As I say, you are entitled to your view but if course you can’t act on them as you will be in jail. The reason you would go to jail is most of your fellow humans reject your views as vile supremacist misogynistic nonsense. vi
But as you quote psalm 4:3 you are fortunate that you don’t need to heed the rest of humanity as the lord has chosen you alone and your special views for being his faithful servant. This is the same logic ISIS uses to justify its actions. You stand with terrorists. Well done.
Daniel: The rest of humanity is under the sway of the wicked one. (1 John 5:19 vii)
luke-jr: So what happens if:
- The victim is dead and has no family? viii
- The slave commits another crime? Which victim owns him? ix
- The slave continues to commit crimes? Can nothing be done to stop him? x
Daniel: I don't know some of the specifics; I guess that's where judges come in. The point is that slavery is not forbidden by the Bible.
luke-jr Neither is prison...
Daniel: I'd rather have slaves than prisoners. I'd rather be a slave than be stuck in a cell.
luke-jr: You know prisoners often do labour, right? They're not just stuck in a cell.
Daniel: That was part of my point! They often prefer to do labor for free rather than sit in a cell.
Oh and hi there luke-jr! How's it going?
- Exodus 21:
2 If you buy a Hebrew servant, he shall serve six years; and in the seventh he shall go out free and pay nothing.
- That's not true. Deuteronomy 15:
17 then you shall take an awl and thrust it through his ear to the door, and he shall be your servant forever. Also to your female servant you shall do likewise.
- Psalm 4:
3 But know that the Lord has set apart for Himself him who is godly;
The Lord will hear when I call to Him. - Genesis 6:
5 Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
- Ecclesiastes 1:
9 That which has been is what will be,
That which is done is what will be done,
And there is nothing new under the sun.
Darwin: Indeed, they threw into jail and crucified our Leader.
Hebrews 11:
Others were tortured, not accepting deliverance, that they might obtain a better resurrection. 36 Still others had trial of mockings and scourgings, yes, and of chains and imprisonment. 37 They were stoned, they were sawn in two, were tempted, were slain with the sword. They wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins, being destitute, afflicted, tormented— 38 of whom the world was not worthy. They wandered in deserts and mountains, in dens and caves of the earth.
- 1 John 5:
19 We know that we are of God, and the whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one.
Darwin: I guess there's no victim then.
Darwin: That would depend on the crime.
Darwin: Yes, he is to be killed.
Numbers 15:
30 ‘But the person who does anything presumptuously, whether he is native-born or a stranger, that one brings reproach on the Lord, and he shall be cut off from among his people. 31 Because he has despised the word of the Lord, and has broken His commandment, that person shall be completely cut off; his guilt shall be upon him.’ ”