Daniel P. Barron

The link between marriage and child-rearing in the Bible is undeniable, though.

Sunday, January 20, 2019

This log has been modified for spelling and formatting. It has been reviewed by Darwin Fish, and his comments have been added as footnotes.

Daniel: It's not wrong for a man to have multiple wives.

Skraticus: The real question is: why would you want more than one? I had one and got rid of it.
Connor: (RSVCE) 1 Timothy 3:

2i Now a bishop must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, sensible, dignified, hospitable, an apt teacher,

Connor: (RSVCE) Matthew 19:

3ii And Pharisees came up to him and tested him by asking, “Is it lawful to divorce one’s wife for any cause?” 4 He answered, “Have you not read that he who made them from the beginning made them male and female, 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one’? 6 So they are no longer two but one. What therefore God has joined together, let not man put asunder.”

The two become one.
Sanctus: Well sure, two at a time. :stuck_out_tongue: But I do see where Daniel is coming from, there doesn't seem to be any prohibition. My main concern with polygamy is that it often has very sexist underpinnings.

Daniel: Yes, the Bible is very sexist. Skraticus, do you think it is ever okay to divorce? To answer your question, you shouldn't want a wife, (1 Corinthians 7:8iii) and yet it is also good. (Proverbs 18:22iv)

Connor: Divorce is absolutely prohibited. The only time I'd say it's okay to separate is for safety reasons like in abuse. If you do separate you cannot remarry.

Daniel: The Bible says even in the case of abuse it is not good. (1 Peter 3:1v)

Connor: That doesn't say anything about abuse. The word is Christianity, and you can be submissive without being a doormat.

Daniel: It says without a word. And it doesn't say it is okay to divorce in any case. That is something you have added.

Connor: Yeah they would still be married, I'm just saying they can separate as in live apart. If your husband beats you, move out and don't have anything to do with him.

Daniel: If they separate, the can rejoin as long as the wife hasn't married another.vi

Connor: You are not free to remarry but you don't have to stay. The wife cannot marry another.

Daniel: That is not true. (1 Corinthians 7:15vii) Key words: not under bondage.

Connor: That's about a non believer leaving a believer. Doesn't apply in other circumstances.

Daniel: Exactly, so then in some cases a woman may remarry.

Connor: Sure, in that case. Not in any other.

Daniel: She also can remarry if her husband dies.

Connor: That's called the Pauline privilege. Yes. She can't remarry if she lives apart from her husband though.
Svarthol: (NRSV) Matthew 19:

13viii Then little children were being brought to him in order that he might lay his hands on them and pray. The disciples spoke sternly to those who brought them; 14 but Jesus said, “Let the little children come to me, and do not stop them; for it is to such as these that the kingdom of heaven belongs.” 15 And he laid his hands on them and went on his way.

Marriage is about protecting children, and it is through the Child that marriage takes place. We live in the madness of a world where there are Orphans of War and genetically purchased Children; where the words "Bastard" and "Faggot" are Insults against God. This is an Abomination before the Lord. Children are bought as Slaves; Orphans are disposed of like trash to be made into Dust and Spice. All are Children in the Eye of God. The Egg is as precious as the Seed. Both have Value in the Eye of God.

Daniel: That is a lie.ix Marriage is a man and a woman becoming one flesh, regardless of pregnancy. For example: Adam and Eve were married before the birth of Cain.x

Sanctus: Marriage, I think, is chiefly concerned with mutual help, for it is not good for a person to be alone, according to God in genesis. But under that concern, it is oriented towards raising children. As well as other things.

Daniel: The Bible doesn't say that.

Sanctus: The Bible doesn't say a lot of things. The link between marriage and child-rearing in the Bible is undeniable, though.

Daniel: Show me where. Or what is this "oriented towards" ; obviously the Bible says you should be married to a person you have sex with, and also obviously children are a result of having had sex with someone. (except in the case of Christ, ha ha) But it is not wrong to marry with no intention of having children.

Sanctus: We agree on that.
Connor: The Bible doesn't have to say something for it to be true.xi

  1. 1 Timothy 3:
    2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach;

  2. Matthew 19:
    3 The Pharisees also came to Him, testing Him, and saying to Him, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for just any reason?”

    4 And He answered and said to them, “Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’ 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? 6 So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.”

  3. 1 Corinthians 7:
    8 But I say to the unmarried and to the widows: It is good for them if they remain even as I am;

    Darwin: That is not a prohibition, as you put it. He simply says it is good.

    Paul's advice on being single is simply advice. As he writes later: 1 Corinthians 7:

    25 Now concerning virgins: I have no commandment from the Lord; yet I give judgment as one whom the Lord in His mercy has made trustworthy.

    He then says: 1 Corinthians 7:

    27 Are you bound to a wife? Do not seek to be loosed. Are you loosed from a wife? Do not seek a wife. 28 But even if you do marry, you have not sinned; and if a virgin marries, she has not sinned. Nevertheless such will have trouble in the flesh, but I would spare you.

    His advice is not to seek a wife. But, it is not a sin to seek a wife.

  4. Proverbs 18:
    22 He who finds a wife finds a good thing,
    And obtains favor from the Lord.

    More to the point, any wife you find is a good thing, even if you already have one.


  5. 1 Peter 3:
    1 Wives, likewise, be submissive to your own husbands, that even if some do not obey the word, they, without a word, may be won by the conduct of their wives,

  6. 1 Corinthians 7:
    10 Now to the married I command, yet not I but the Lord: A wife is not to depart from her husband. 11 But even if she does depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband. And a husband is not to divorce his wife.

  7. 1 Corinthians 7:
    15 But if the unbeliever departs, let him depart; a brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases. But God has called us to peace.

  8. Matthew 19:
    13 Then little children were brought to Him that He might put His hands on them and pray, but the disciples rebuked them. 14 But Jesus said, “Let the little children come to Me, and do not forbid them; for of such is the kingdom of heaven.” 15 And He laid His hands on them and departed from there.

  9. That is:
    it is through the Child that marriage takes place

  10. Genesis 2:
    23 And Adam said:

    “This is now bone of my bones
    And flesh of my flesh;
    She shall be called Woman,
    Because she was taken out of Man.”

    24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.

    25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

  11. Darwin: Proverbs 30:
    5 Every word of God is pure;
    He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him.
    6 Do not add to His words,
    Lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar.

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