Daniel P. Barron

Marriage is honorable among all, and the bed undefiled.

Sunday, December 15, 2019

Daniel:

Doug: as in anal sex with women would be a reasonable cause of the disease as well
Doug: and it would further add to the point

anal sex between man and woman isn't sodomy and isn't inherently wrong
Doug: @Daniel it actually 100% is sodomy
Doug: and is inherently wrong
Daniel: can you prove that with Scripture?
!Michael [Atheist]: Misfortune isn't evidence that a god is real, so it wouldn't result in me becoming a theist.
Doug: you don't stick half of the equation to produce into a place where feces comes out of
Daniel: that's not Scripture
Doug: let me go get the scripture from romans
Doug: Romans 1:

24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

!Michael [Atheist]: I may have missed it, but I didn't see sodomy mentioned in there.
Daniel: i don't see it either
Doug:

For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

Doug: this is pretty much sodomy on a whole
Daniel:

and likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly

Daniel: it says likewise and goes on to describe homosexuality
Daniel: not anal sex
Doug:

For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

Daniel: meaning, women lying with women
Doug: I'll tell you what
Doug: I'm always a big fan of this
Daniel: which is "like"wise to men with men
Doug: why don't you ask God if anal sex is appropriate in a marriage bed
!Michael [Atheist]: Does he need to ask God when he already has scripture?
Doug: because I'm pretty sure he'll tell you no
Daniel: okay I will, oh hey I have my answer!
Daniel: Hebrews 13:

4 Marriage is honorable among all, and the bed undefiled; but fornicators and adulterers God will judge.

Daniel: God has spoken, anal sex does not defile the marriage bed
Doug: i honestly hope you don't have a wife that you practice that with
!Michael [Atheist]: Uh oh, that one's me
Daniel: i have no wives
!Michael [Atheist]: Well I suppose adultery was her, not me. I'm just a fornicator
Doug: nah
!Michael [Atheist]: Does it count for both of us?
Doug: yes
!Michael [Atheist]: OK cool
Doug: hebrews 13:

1 Let brotherly love continue.

2 Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.

3 Remember them that are in bonds, as bound with them; and them which suffer adversity, as being yourselves also in the body.

4 Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.

Doug: yeah
Doug: this verse doesn't approve of sodomy
Doug: song of solomon is the book of sex
Doug: and quite frankly its obvious how God designed the human body
!Michael [Atheist]: Is oral sex fine?
Daniel: in sodom, it was homosexual sex
Daniel: or would have been anyway
Daniel: (with the angels/God)
Doug: i would think so @!Michael [Atheist]
Daniel: Scripture says marriage is "honorable in all" and all includes anal sex (the context being what goes on in the bed)
Daniel: whoremongering is prostitution (sex outside of marriage) and adultery is sex with someone else's wife
Doug: you're pretty far off base here
Doug: the context isn't being what goes on in bed
!Michael [Atheist]: Why is oral sex not changing the natural use into that which is against nature, but anal is?
!Michael [Atheist]: It's not procreative
!Michael [Atheist]: And the mouth is used for speaking and eating
Daniel: because he's making this up based on his own understanding
!Michael [Atheist]: Oooh yeah, lean not on that
Daniel: proverbs 3:

5 Trust in the Lord with all your heart,
And lean not on your own understanding;

!Michael [Atheist]: :stuck_out_tongue:
Doug: the context is not what goes in on bed
Doug: but what goes on in life
!Michael [Atheist]: This is not a place you'll find many lgbt friendly people anyway
Doug: the preceding verses are about what goes on in life
Doug: the subject and context isn't going to talk about what goes on in a marriage bedroom
Doug: nor does it mean it approves of sodomy
Daniel: it says marriage bed is undefiled
Doug: yeah, being seperate from "honorable in all"
Doug: the context of honorable in all is about everything in life
Doug: and yeah, the marriage bed is undefiled until you defile it
Doug: this is not a verse that approves of sodomy daniel
Doug: we can agree to disagree here
Doug: because its not going to get any further than that
!Michael [Atheist]: If marriage bed is undefiled until it's defiled, why even include that phrase? It's meaningless
!Michael [Atheist]: It goes without saying that something is one way until it isn't
Doug: there are things you can do to defile a marriage bed
Doug: like swinging
Daniel: that's adultery
Doug: yeah
Daniel: adultery is specifically named as an evil thing
!Michael [Atheist]: Yeah, and not a marriage bed as the two aren't married
Daniel: also, sex during menstruation is called an abomination
Daniel: that is the one exception i can think of
Doug: the marriage bed is undefiled
Doug: but there are things people can do to defile it
!Michael [Atheist]: Seems like this boils down to whether or not straight anal sex is sodomy
!Michael [Atheist]: If menstruation gets to be an exception due to explicit mention, then anything else explicitly mentioned would as well.
Daniel: that is my point
Daniel: sodomy is never specifically described as anal sex in general
Daniel: in sodom, all the men came to have sex with the visiting men

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