Daniel P. Barron

This log is a continuation of a previous article.

thunor: I wish people sang loudly in church.
Daniel: We do in our church. ⁱ
thunor: I actually think it's a sin to sing quietly.
GoddessUbasti: Thunor, do you attend church?
thunor: GoddessUbasti, of course.
Daniel: It's not a sin to sing quietly! Where does the Bible say this?
GoddessUbasti: Oh?
Daniel: What about people who have no voice? They can't be saved?
GoddessUbasti: Thunor, what kind of church?
thunor: Daniel, well it instructs you to play instruments loudly and skillfully, and the voice box is sort of a instrument.
GoddessUbasti: "Sing a joyful noise unto the Lord." ⁱⁱ
thunor: GoddessUbasti, a Methodist one but I might become baptist or catholic not sure still deciding.
GoddessUbasti: But someone who is unable to sing... that's not a sin. Thunor, what draws you to Catholicism?
Daniel: I like to sing and I'm good at it ⁱⁱⁱ so I like to sing loud when I know the words.
thunor: GoddessUbasti, it's the original church St. Peter founded, or claims to be.
Daniel: Thunor, Catholicism leads to hell.
GoddessUbasti: Original doesn't always mean that it's remained true to the Bible.
thunor: They might have traditions that inherit from two thousand years ago though. And when I look at all preachers who are not catholic, they seem quite lost. Like they are making it all up.
GoddessUbasti: Daniel, you think polygamy is okay? Thunor, wow sorry you believe that...like what preachers? Because that's not the case with all preachers.
thunor: Well the one I follow who is the best I know at the moment, https://www.youtube.com/user/sanderson1611 ^iv - he seems quite lost. ^v He says Catholics are pagan and stuff. But I bet deep down he wants to be catholic. Because it is the first church. And if you believe in the power of Christ, why would he abandon his first church?
^Peter^: From a musical point of view, singing loudly is not always bringing out the subject matter, music is not just notes, it is modulation and effect. Loud is not always valid.
GoddessUbasti: Are you at a United Methodist church?
thunor: GoddessUbasti, I don't think so, I'm in the UK.
GoddessUbasti: Oh, hmm.
thunor: ^Peter^, loud is the baseline in my opinion. It's gotta be loud even if it's bad, other people can cancel it out. ^vi
^Peter^: Thunor, you are not for my choir.
thunor: :P
Daniel:

GoddessUbasti: Daniel, you think polygamy is okay?

Polygyny, a man having multiple wives, is not forbidden by the Bible.
thunor: I mean for at least 20 people.
GoddessUbasti: Thunor, https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXL6kvDyoQpvtaeafC4pLyg Charles Stanley is a solid preacher. Daniel, it's official, you're a part of a cult.
Daniel:

thunor: Because it is the first church

How do you know this? The Bible does not say it.
GoddessUbasti: FLDS-like. ^vii Daniel, men (mostly kings) having multiples wives does not mean God ordained it.
Daniel: Stanley is a false teacher. http://atruechurch.info/stanley.html.
thunor: Daniel, it clearly is, it killed all the heretics and pagans in Europe, it tried to claim the holy land back, it has St. Peter as its first pope.... everything points at it.
Daniel: GoddessUbasti, show me where the Bible condemns men from having multiple wives.
thunor: By the way, can I be saved and say that the stories in genesis are myth?
GoddessUbasti: Daniel, he's absolutely not a false teacher, but you and your church are. :(
Daniel: Thunor, where is any of that found in the Bible?

thunor: By the way, can I be saved and say that the stories in genesis are myth?

No.
GoddessUbasti: Thunor, it's important to believe that the Bible is God's communication with humans about His truth, who He is, and what He expects from us.
thunor: Daniel, you can't say everything in life and that happens after the bible is complete must be written about in the bible.
Daniel: I'm saying that if it's not in the Bible, take it with a grain of salt. Yesterday's news is often wrong.
^Peter^: As to the multiple wives, obviously OT had some, but Mar_10:11 ^viii And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her. would indicate that the change of attitude.
thunor: GoddessUbasti, okay I can accept it as truth, but I need a new class of truth.
Daniel: ^Peter^, that says specifically if you divorce your wife to marry another, it's adultery. Key word is divorce. In polygyny, you stay married to all your wives.
GoddessUbasti: Thunor, what's "new class of truth" mean? Daniel, https://www.gotquestions.org/polygamy.html. Monogamy is God's ideal plan for us.
Daniel:

The question of polygamy is an interesting one in that most people today view polygamy as immoral while the Bible nowhere explicitly condemns it.

Article should have stopped after this first sentence.
GoddessUbasti: Daniel, you sure hate context.
Daniel: What more do you need to know other than "the Bible nowhere explicitly condemns it."
GoddessUbasti: While context is necessary for intellectual honesty.
thunor: GoddessUbasti, well there is true as in factually correct "I am sitting on a chair" and there's true as in "indicating something that is true" e.g. "I ran to the shop at lightning speed." The bible clearly is not all cut and dry fact. Not literally true.
Daniel:

How does God view polygamy today? 3) Why did it change?

It didn't.
GoddessUbasti: It did change. Just read it, Daniel.
Daniel: Thunor, where it is not literal, it says so.
thunor: Abraham had concubines. As far as I know.
GoddessUbasti: You can read the article, too. :P
Daniel:

Due to patriarchal societies, it was nearly impossible for an unmarried woman to provide for herself.

This is still the case for believers. ^ix A husband is commanded to provide for his children, and for his wife.

GoddessUbasti: All your questions about the Bible can be answered, thunor, but it's important that your motive is to learn truth, what God intended, not what truth you may want to see, or what truth someone else tells you. Research it for yourself.
Daniel: The Bible is "patriarchal" and commands us to be likewise.
GoddessUbasti: But ensure that what you care about most is what God tells you about truth, not something that you personally wish to believe is truth.
thunor: GoddessUbasti, I don't want to go around telling people that a snake talked to a human...
GoddessUbasti: Thunor, concern yourself most with telling people what Jesus did for them on the cross.
Daniel:

it seems that God may have allowed polygamy to protect and provide for the women who could not find a husband otherwise.

What's more, polygyny is the loving thing to do. Why should a woman in love be denied to marry her love because he is already married? This is the plot of most western movies it's such a common thing.

GoddessUbasti: Daniel, you twist things to your own selfish ends. I'm sad to see it. I really am.
Daniel:

While definitely not ideal

Where does the Bible say it is not ideal? ^x

thunor: GoddessUbasti, did you know he was only up there for 6 hours? He might not have actually died physically - every thought of that? maybe he pretended to die.
GoddessUbasti: Thunor, Jesus literally died, and literally resurrected from death.
thunor: GoddessUbasti, I know but it's an interesting thought in my opinion.
GoddessUbasti: Thunor, what I see you do is injecting human truths into what you believe, not God's truths.
^Peter^: Not literally, actuality is the word. :)
Daniel:

The Bible says that God's original intention was for one man to be married to only one woman: "For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife [not wives], and they will become one flesh [not fleshes]" (Genesis 2:24 ^xi).

This is the definition of one marriage. The Bible nowhere forbids a man from having multiple marriages.

GoddessUbasti: Thunor, if Jesus did not die, then all of it is a lie. And no one will be saved.
thunor: GoddessUbasti, is it a lie when a colorblind man says what he sees?
GoddessUbasti: Yes.
thunor: :/
GoddessUbasti: Because if the color IS green.
^Peter^: Thunor, he can see in his mind.
GoddessUbasti: Well, not a lie. But it is not TRUE. If he sees brown, that is not the TRUE color.
thunor: There is a true color eh? xD
Daniel:

God says that the kings were not supposed to multiply wives (or horses or gold). ^xii While this cannot be interpreted as a command that the kings must be monogamous, it can be understood as declaring that having multiple wives causes problems.

Is this likewise a command to only have one horse? One gold? No. David had more than twenty wives ^xiii and God says he was right in everything he did (except the matter of Uriah the Hittite). ^xiv
GoddessUbasti: Truth is outside of our perception, thunor. There are true colors? Daniel, can you support one wife, let alone two or more? Just curious.
thunor: So what a bee sees on the flower is false or true?
Daniel:

This can be clearly seen in the life of Solomon (1 Kings 11:3-4 ^xv).

Indeed. Solomon had something like a thousand wives, and this is apparently "multiplying wives." GoddessUbasti, I could probably support a few, yeah.

GoddessUbasti: Sure, Daniel, sure.
Daniel: Why do you doubt me?
GoddessUbasti: Support doesn't mean barely keep alive. :P ^xvi
^Peter^: For most of us one wife is more than adequate.
GoddessUbasti: Thunor, human perception is what i'm talking about.
Daniel: Wives aren't so expensive to support when they live biblically and do as their husband says, and don't go running up debt.
GoddessUbasti: What about many children?
Daniel: Yeah, I could support children too. ^xvii

Lord willing.

To be continued...

1. 
   

   Darwin: Sometimes, sometimes not.

    ^

2. Psalm 95:
   

   1 Oh come, let us sing to the Lord!
   Let us shout joyfully to the Rock of our salvation.

   Psalm 98:
   

   4 Shout joyfully to the Lord, all the earth;
   Break forth in song, rejoice, and sing praises.

    ^

3. 
   

   Darwin: Proverbs 27:
   

   2 Let another man praise you, and not your own mouth;
   A stranger, and not your own lips.

    ^

4. 
   

   Darwin: Steven Anderson Is Unfaithful To The Word.

   YouTube channel he mentioned, we have the above article (and another) on that false teacher. [He] is somewhat entertaining to watch. He's charismatic (in personality), and comes off as Biblical (because he does deal with Scripture). I enjoyed doing the articles on him.

    ^

5. He seems lost but you call him the "best" and follow him?? ^
6. I sorta agree with him here. I wouldn't fault someone in fellow for singing off key very loudly. What a blessing that they feel moved to praise God so loud. And the Bible does say to do it loud. To "shout" even. See above footnote. ^
7. "Latter-day Saints." aka "Mormons." ^
8. Mark 10:
   

   11 So He said to them, “Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery against her.

    ^

9. It's not wrong for a woman to provide for herself, nor is it impossible. ^
10. Besides it saying that it's better to not marry at all!

    1 Corinthians 7:
    

    8 But I say to the unmarried and to the widows: It is good for them if they remain even as I am;

     ^

11. Genesis 2:
    

    24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.

     ^

12. Deuteronomy 17:
    

    14 “When you come to the land which the Lord your God is giving you, and possess it and dwell in it, and say, ‘I will set a king over me like all the nations that are around me,’ 15 you shall surely set a king over you whom the Lord your God chooses; one from among your brethren you shall set as king over you; you may not set a foreigner over you, who is not your brother. 16 But he shall not multiply horses for himself, nor cause the people to return to Egypt to multiply horses, for the Lord has said to you, ‘You shall not return that way again.’ 17 Neither shall he multiply wives for himself, lest his heart turn away; nor shall he greatly multiply silver and gold for himself.

     ^

13. 
    

    Darwin: David had at least 20-22 wives, depending on whether the wives he got from Saul are included, or not, from those he added in Jerusalem. So, we can't say, for certain, more than 20. It just depends.

     ^

14. 1 Kings 15:
    

    5 because David did what was right in the eyes of the Lord, and had not turned aside from anything that He commanded him all the days of his life, except in the matter of Uriah the Hittite.

    Here is proof that David did not disobey God's command to not "multiply wives" for himself. ^

15. 1 Kings 11:
    

    3 And he had seven hundred wives, princesses, and three hundred concubines; and his wives turned away his heart. 4 For it was so, when Solomon was old, that his wives turned his heart after other gods; and his heart was not loyal to the Lord his God, as was the heart of his father David.

     ^

16. Says who? If that's all you can do is keep them clothed and fed, that's still a blessing. ^
17. 
    

    Darwin: On supporting wives and children, it'd be good to include "if the Lord wills." (James 4:15)

     ^