Daniel P. Barron

God goes against His own will.

April 4, 2019

1tepa1: An all loving God would not first of all blame his own creation for its faults. He knew exactly what he was creating, he created the possibility of going to sin (why would he do that if he thought no one would go there) so he knowingly created a place where people would fail him while knowing people would fail him and did it anyway.

What is worse is he put an eternal punishment with no way out of there on those who failed him. A loving God would never punish its own creation in this way for its own design fault.

I am not all loving and I can still think of multiple more loving ways to deal with those who go off the rails than torturing them for eternity. For example maybe give them a chance to turn back to God? Gods creation deluded them away from God so why couldn't God have a place for them to turn back instead of eternal torture? Or if for some reason some people don't want to accept God you still don't need to torture them, you can in your infinite power create a contained realm for them where they are not tortured and don't get to interact with other people. Or you know, just make them vanish, that would save on having to have a hell that has no purpose.

Hell literally has no purpose. It doesn't teach you anything, cant get out, cant do anything but suffer for eternity, what is the point of that, what is the purpose of those who are in hell and what is the purpose of hell for them?

The reason most people don't believe in God is because they have to see it to believe it. But God doesn't show itself here that much. I bet almost everyone would take heaven over hell if they died and God actually showed hey I am real hell and heaven are real do you now believe or wanna go to hell?

Daniel: How Can A God Of Love Send People To Hell?:

The reason people are sent to hell is because God is a God of love. This may sound incorrect to the human mind (1 Corinthians 2:14), but it is nonetheless the teaching of Scripture. For example, why did God kill the firstborn of Egypt (Exodus 12:29-30)? Psalm 136:10 says because His mercy endures forever. Why did the Lord destroy the Egyptian army in the Red Sea? Psalm 136:15 says because His mercy endures forever. Why did He strike down great kings? Because His mercy endures forever (Psalm 136:17). Why did He slay famous kings? Because His mercy endures forever (Psalm 136:18). Why did He kill Sihon king of the Amorites and Og king of Bashan? Because His mercy endures forever (Psalm 136:19-20). Those who died in their wickedness went to hell. Yet, Psalm 136 begins with these words:
Oh, give thanks to the Lord, for He is good! For His mercy endures forever. (Psalm 136:1)

1tepa1 Where is his mercy for those who suffer in hell?

Daniel: His mercy is for those who believe. His wrath is for those who don't believe.

1tepa1: Ah so he isn't all loving but is like a bad parent who abandons his own children who don't know the full picture or what is best for them because they are children.

Daniel: He loves the whole world,i even those He created for hell.ii

1tepa1: His idea of love is strange. Its psychopathic. Its not real love. Real love does not want to harm. If a parent loves its children he wont torture them. Wrath isn't love. Jesus said love thy enemy, not have wrath for them or your own children.

Daniel: God doesn't want to harm.iii (2 Peter 3:9iv) He goes against His own will.

1tepa1: He must he split up then :)

yelllowsharpie: xactly. This is a narcissist's love.

  1. John 3:
    16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

  2. Proverbs 16:
    4 The Lord has made all for Himself,
    Yes, even the wicked for the day of doom.

    Romans 9:

    22 What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction,


  3. Darwin: Ezekiel 33:
    11 Say to them: ‘As I live,’ says the Lord God, ‘I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live. Turn, turn from your evil ways! For why should you die, O house of Israel?’

    Lamentations 3:

    33 For He does not afflict willingly,
    Nor grieve the children of men.

    1 Timothy 2:

    3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

    Yet, hell exists because, God is "wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known." (Romans 9:22)

    Isaiah 66:

    24 “And they shall go forth and look
    Upon the corpses of the men
    Who have transgressed against Me.
    For their worm does not die,
    And their fire is not quenched.
    They shall be an abhorrence to all flesh.”

  4. 2 Peter 3:
    9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

3 Responses

  1. Daniel Holmes

    yelllowsharpie: xactly. This is a narcissist's love.

    It's interesting to point out that even by worldly standards a level of Narcissism is expected as part of a healthy self-image: "Believe in yourself", "You can do anything you put your mind to", "The only thing you have to fear is fear itself".

    The difference between the world and the saved is that we ascribe those "narcissistic" elements to God as per his revealed word and to ourselves we ascribe nothing but wretched acts from ourselves and good works from God.

    Yet somehow ascribing to God what humans would call healthy mental states is abhorrent and evil.

    Non-Christians want justice for themselves, but not a just God. Non-Christians want love for themselves, but not the kind of love that corrects and helps set boundaries. If they were honest, their positions are entirely selfish and hypocritical.

  2. Unnamed human

    You don't call someone with healthy self-esteem a narcissist. Narcissists have Self-esteem, but not in a healthy way. They believe that they can't do anything wrong, and everything bad that happens is someone else fault. He isn't ascribing to God healthy self-esteem, he's ascribing narcissism. If you look that up in the dictionary, they aren't synonymous.

    "He loves the whole world. even those He created for hell."

    He must not love everybody very much if he's creating people to send to hell.

  3. Self-esteem is not healthy, as it leads to eternal destruction.

    Philippians 2:

    3 Let nothing be done through selfish ambition or conceit, but in lowliness of mind let each esteem others better than himself.

    Luke 14:

    26 “If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple.

    A narcissist may believe he can do no wrong, but God actually doesn't do wrong.

    Romans 9:

    19 You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?” 20 But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, “Why have you made me like this?”

    And as was already pointed out in the footnotes, God is long-suffering because of the wicked He creates for destruction. The wicked who He also loves, and does not want to destroy, but does anyway.

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