Daniel P. Barron

First time I've ever had someone come along arguing for polygamy from the scripture.

Tuesday, December 17, 2019

ayylmao: I believe that patriotism is an unnecessary weight that will pull a christian down in their walk with God.
Jacob: We ought to be loyal, but there's a point where it goes too far. I don't identify with my country, but I am loyal to her interests so long as I am a citizen... and that doesn't always involve following the crowd, either, for the mob rule isn't always in the best interest of a nation.

Daniel: You should follow the law and pay tax, and even pray for the leaders, but you don't have to like the country you are in.

Jacob: Well, if we seek the highest prosperity for our country, as we should in all things, then we will necessarily have a right relationship with them.
yaakov117: What do you mean by prosperity?
Jacob: I'm using it in the broadest most general sense possible. I'm not talking just financially. Morally, economically, environmentally, educationally, etc...
MissMo: Be not of this world. We only obey the laws because God says to do so. But, patriotism can turn into idolism. We owe no one anything but to love them. And love is an action verb. We show love through action.
Redpandude: Matthew 22:21i KJV They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.
MissMo: Thus obeying the laws as God commanded.
ayylmao: I don't believe in taking oaths to a country when becoming a citizen. I have not swear in God's name to serve my country. James 5:12ii because i dont believe that i will always serve my country. It's best to not make a promise if you know you wont keep it. But then again Jesus says we have to give to God what belongs to God and to Caesar what belongs to Caesar. Matthew 22:21
Feeling Lost: Daniel's right. Sadly I don't do that, because I spend more time hating on my country. :worried:

Daniel: I hate the U.S. because it is wicked; it has bad laws like those that prohibit polygyny and the use of drugs, while also allowing bad things like adultery and homosexuality.

Jacob: Polygamy and drug use are contrary to the law of God. It is right to have such statutes. I support them. I don't know that there's a whole lot that can be done in the area of adultery and homosexuality. Perhaps we could make them a crime, sure. Certainly we shouldn't be permitting same-sex "marriage." In the long run, though, these sins can only be truly dealt with on the level of the heart and conscience. The church is responsible for the current of evil which overflows society, not the state. It's the churches fault for dropping the ball that things are so bad the way they are.
ayylmao: I'm sure there are liberals disguised as Christians to bring about hate in their demonstrations. The way you test them is via scripture, Jacob. Thus discouraging our side. As we promote "hate."
Feeling Lost: What if the government actually followed God's commandments only and didn't add their own stuff. :thinking: Oh well.
Pavel: Feeling Lost, did you not know that there is a spirit that controls every nation. There could be one or more spirits controlling each nation. If the leader of the country does what is against the will of the spirit and God permits, that leader will get removed very fast. Do you think the spirit of the nation would want a real Christian in power? No No and No...

Daniel: Jacob, where in the Bible are drugs or polygyny forbidden?

Pavel: 1 Timothy 3:2-4iii 2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; 3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous; 4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;

Daniel: That is for bishops; where does it say non-bishops can't have multiple wives?

Pavel: Titus 1:5-7iv 5 For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee: 6 If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly. 7 For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;

Daniel: That's bishops again.

Pavel: Matthew 19:4-5v King James Version (KJV) 4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, 5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?

Daniel: that describes a marriage; it doesn't say the man can't do it multiple times.

Pavel: Twain? or Thraine or quadraine?? Looks to me Jesus said twain.

Daniel: Right, if a man divorces his wife they will be two instead of one. This doesn't say he can't marry multiple and you are adding to the Word to say it does.

Pavel: In the beginning how many wives did God create for Adam?

Daniel: I don't know; the only one mentioned is Eve. Supposing she was the only wife of Adam, how is this a prohibition of polygyny? Considering also that David had many wives, and God says he was righteous in doing so.

Redpandude: Did God say he was righteous to have multiple wives specifically? Or did He say that his life in the long run was a righteous one because he was 'a man after God's own heart's we can also look at Abraham and how God mad Hagar and her son leave the camp because of the feud going on between Sarah and Abraham's servant. We as proclaimed Christians should be well aware that God is willing to declare righteous even us, with our abominable acts on a daily basis.

Daniel: 1 Kings 15:

5 because David did what was right in the eyes of the Lord, and had not turned aside from anything that He commanded him all the days of his life, except in the matter of Uriah the Hittite.vi

E_Coli: Are you advocating for polygyny?

Daniel: Yes.

E_Coli: What for? Mormon?

Daniel: No, Mormonism leads to hell.

E_Coli: What for then.
Jacob: [Genesis 2:24vii]
Holy Bible "$help": 24. Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh. Genesis 2:24 (NKJV)
Jacob: This is the Biblical definition of marriage; two becoming one. A man and a woman.

Daniel: Sure, and it doesn't say the man cannot repeat that process with another woman while still being married to the first.

Jacob: So then, in the marriage relationship, if two men and a woman are married in a threesome, is it okay for the men to have homosexual relations? They are married, are they not? Likewise, for a man to marry two women, they three would have to be one flesh. Therefore, in that situation, can the women engage in homosexual intercourse and it be acceptable in the eyes of the Lord?

Daniel: The Bible specifically forbids a woman having multiple husbands.

Jacob: Why then couldn't two men or two women marry if two men and a woman, or two women and a man, could marry?

Daniel: Romans 7:

2 For the woman who has a husband is bound by the law to her husband as long as he lives. But if the husband dies, she is released from the law of her husband. 3 So then if, while her husband lives, she marries another man, she will be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from that law, so that she is no adulteress, though she has married another man.

Jacob: It is also adultery for a man to take another woman while he is yet married.

Daniel: Jacob, the Bible says no such thing.

Jacob: Oh? [Matthew 5:27-28] [Matt 5:32]
Holy Bible "$help": Matthew 5:

27 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ 28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.viii

Holy Bible "$help": Matthew 5:

32 But I say to you that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except sexual immorality causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery.

Jacob: If a man who takes another woman while his wife is yet faithful is committing adultery, how can he take another woman without a certificate of divorce and it be any different?

Daniel: The man in that case isn't said to be married; can he not marry at all?

Jacob: [Matthew 19:9]
Holy Bible "$help": Matthew 19:

9 And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery.”

Daniel: Where does it say there he can't marry another?

Jacob: Look. If a man takes another woman while his wife is still faithful to him, he is an adulterer.

Daniel: It says that if he divorces her to marry another, he has committed adultery.

Jacob: How is it any different if he doesn't divorce her first?

Daniel: Because then he would be married to both.

Jacob: If divorcing your wife and taking another woman is adultery, then keeping your wife and taking another woman is also adultery.

Daniel: No, you are adding to the Word there.

Jacob: [Genesis 2:24] is the declaration.
Holy Bible "$help": 24. Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh. Genesis 2:24 (NKJV)

Daniel: Again, doesn't say he can't do that with multiple.

Jacob: Do you have two wives?

Daniel: I don't have any wives.

Jacob: [1 Timothy 3:2]
Holy Bible "$help": 2. A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach; 1 Timothy 3:2 (NKJV)

Daniel: That is for bishops; not everyone.

Feeling Lost: Read through 1 corinthians 7. You may find the answer. It speaks a lot about a man and a woman, marriage, staying single or widowed etc.
Jacob: [1 Corinthians 7:2]
Holy Bible "$help": 1 Corinthians 7:

2 Nevertheless, because of sexual immorality, let each man have his own wife, and let each woman have her own husband.

Daniel: Again, doesn't say a man can't have multiple.

Jacob: [Mark 10:5-9]
Holy Bible "$help": Mark 10:

5 And Jesus answered and said to them, “Because of the hardness of your heart he wrote you this precept. 6 But from the beginning of the creation, God ‘made them male and female.’ 7 ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, 8 and the two shall become one flesh’; so then they are no longer two, but one flesh. 9 Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.”

Jacob: "The two shall become one flesh." Not three.

Daniel: It doesn't say he can't become one flesh with another.

E_Coli: It doesn't say he can either.

Daniel: If it doesn't say he can't, we shouldn't speculate otherwise. Plus, many righteous men had multiple wives.

E_Coli: If it's not explicitly said that it's allowed we shouldn't speculate either.

Daniel: So then you shouldn't use this chat, because God never explicitly said you should.

Jacob: That's a pretty silly argument.

Daniel: Indeed.

Jacob: I think the Bible is quite clear that marriage is between one man and one woman.

Daniel: You think wrong.

Jacob: All throughout scripture this is pretty much assumed by the writers. The fact that Judah went into a prostitute doesn't make it acceptable. God deals with erring men and women where they are.
E_Coli: God didn't say not to use this chat.
Jacob: David's ordeal with Bathsheba doesn't make it okay.

Daniel: David was righteous in everything he did (except one matter) and he had multiple wives.

Jacob: Jacob playing favorites with his children doesn't mean we should have favoritism.
E_Coli: The argument itself is moot because it can support its counterpoint as well.
Jacob: Jesus says that a man who takes another woman while he is still bound to his wife (for divorce only comes by adultery) is an adulterer himself. I think this is a very clear revelation.

Daniel: That's not what He said; it was specifically the divorce that made him an adulterer.

Jacob: Right, because she was not really divorced from him. The certificate of divorce was invalid in His eyes. God only permits divorce in the case of adultery. Unless there is adultery, the man is still bound to his wife, and is an adulterer if he takes another.

Daniel: God divorces.

Jacob: Because of adultery. Are you suggesting that God is an adulterer?

Daniel: [Jeremiah 3:8]

Holy Bible "$help": Jeremiah 3:

8 Then I saw that for all the causes for which backsliding Israel had committed adultery, I had put her away and given her a certificate of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah did not fear, but went and played the harlot also.

Jacob: Right, God divorces in the case of adultery only. He holds us to the same standard.

Daniel: No He's not an adulterer because Israel had already committed adultery, which is the exception.

Jacob: And if we take another while we are yet married, we are adulterers.

Daniel: No, the standard is that if your wife commits adultery, you will not be an adulterer by divorcing her (not that it is therefor good to divorce her).

Jacob: But Jesus defines lusting after a woman in your heart as adultery. Clearly adultery is about sexual relations, and not about divorce.

Daniel: In that example, the man lusting is not said to be married or unmarried. Are you saying that an unmarried man can therefor not get married?

Jacob: So then a married man who lusts after someone other than his wife is not an adulterer?

Daniel: That may be, but it doesn't mean he cannot marry her.

Jacob: First time I've ever had someone come along arguing for polygamy from the scripture. lol

  1. Matthew 22:
    21 They said to Him, “Caesar’s.”

    And He said to them, “Render therefore to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.”

  2. James 5:
    12 But above all, my brethren, do not swear, either by heaven or by earth or with any other oath. But let your “Yes” be “Yes,” and your “No,” “No,” lest you fall into judgment.

  3. 1 Timothy 3:
    2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach; 3 not given to wine, not violent, not greedy for money, but gentle, not quarrelsome, not covetous; 4 one who rules his own house well, having his children in submission with all reverence

  4. Titus 1:
    5 For this reason I left you in Crete, that you should set in order the things that are lacking, and appoint elders in every city as I commanded you— 6 if a man is blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of dissipation or insubordination. 7 For a bishop must be blameless, as a steward of God, not self-willed, not quick-tempered, not given to wine, not violent, not greedy for money,

  5. Matthew 19:
    4 And He answered and said to them, “Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’ 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’?


  6. Darwin: Key verse in understanding 1 Kings 15:5 is Deuteronomy 17:17. God directly commanded David (as king of Israel) not to "multiply wives for himself (17:17). 1 Kings 15:5 proves David didn't disobey this command, even though he had about 20 wives.
    And 1 Kings 15:5 proves via David's example that polygyny is "right in the eyes of the Lord."

  7. Genesis 2:
    24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.


  8. Darwin: Jesus' context in Matthew 5:28 is adultery (Matthew 5:27). His statement only applies to looking at a married woman (who is not your wife).

One Response

  1. [...] Lord, and had not turned aside from anything that He commanded him all the days of his life." and First time I've ever had someone come along arguing for polygamy from the scripture." and "God didn't explicitly say anything against it." ↩Genesis 2: 18 And the Lord God said, [...]

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