Daniel P. Barron

And distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.

Wednesday, April 29, 2020 

Madea: Question Daniel, does ATC meet often informally like brothers and sisters?
Daniel: yes
Madea: Could forsaking my life and moving to OK be a substitute to joining the Bruderhof, or are you guys not set up for Canadians
Daniel: lol set up for canadians?
Daniel: i'm not in charge of immigration in this country
Madea: As in like, hospitable to the point of being a landing pad for someone, or communal enough to just have people be among you forever like in Acts
Madea: I think some communal churches will offer official experienced jobs to bypass immigration so people can get a green card
Daniel: when I moved here I was given a place to stay until i got my apartment and eventually my house
Madea: but non paying
Daniel: i'm sure if someone joined us and needed help with immigration we would try to figure out how to help them within the law
Madea: But membership is taken seriously? It's not just like 'cya next time everyone' at the end of services?
Madea: Like is there an actual formal process of becoming a member
Daniel: What Must I Do To Be Saved?
Daniel: besides baptism, we don't have any formal process i guess
Madea: So if someone was to cross the border and hope to be situated with you guys, they'd just have to hope that you all feel generous at that time? lol
Daniel: you must do what God puts on your heart to do, and hope in His mercy
Madea: Do you guys offer a complete new life and transformation
Madea: Or is it just like an average church but with different beliefs
Daniel: new life and transformation is something you get from Scripture. We can't make you do it. We are not like other churches.
Madea: I guess to be more specific with my question... is everyone independent from one another outside the congregation just to meet at scheduled times.. or is everyone considered a sacrificial vessel that operates as a team for the kingdom of God in complete unity
Madea: I've heard it said that biker clubs are more familial than modern church, and I'm trying to find a church that alleviates that problem
Poor Jewish Crypto Beggar: biker clubs are drug traffickers, read Hunter S Thompson's account of staying with the hell's angels
Madea: Yeah I know
Madea: I was just speaking on the topic of family
Poor Jewish Crypto Beggar: the drugs mimick love, they're doping eachother into being friends
Alkehaul: Not all biker clubs are drug traffickers.i
Poor Jewish Crypto Beggar: but all the canoe clubs are
Alkehaul: I’m a raging homosexual and I’m trying to figure out what the hell you mean
Poor Jewish Crypto Beggar: how else are you supposed to get them to shore silently
Poor Jewish Crypto Beggar: it may not be a global phenomena
Alkehaul: I-
Daniel:

I guess to be more specific with my question... is everyone independent from one another outside the congregation just to meet at scheduled times.. or is everyone considered a sacrificial vessel that operates as a team for the kingdom of God in complete unity

Madea, a bit of both i guess.
Madea: I see. Honestly man, I just want to follow the early church's communal tradition. I hope there's a path to Heaven within the Bruderhof.
Daniel: do they have a website i can check out?
Madea: The Basis of our Faith
Daniel:

Chastity: We pledge to uphold sexual purity and, if married, to stay faithful in the bond of marriage between one man and one woman for life.

They are against polygyny?
Daniel:

3. Are you willing, for the sake of Christ, to put yourself completely at the disposal of the church community to the end of your life – all your faculties, the entire strength of your body and soul, and all your property, both that which you now possess and that which you may later inherit or earn?

Such should be the will of those who believe, but we are not obligated to give away all our things in order to be saved.
Daniel: this whole list of vows is creepy
Daniel:

Upon answering yes, the new member receives the laying on of hands in the prayer that God will fill him or her anew with the Holy Spirit.

So until you've made these 6 vows, you aren't saved?
Daniel:

Because vows of membership are made to God, no human being has the authority to dissolve them. Accordingly, if members leave our fellowship, the church community has no obligation to return any property or to remunerate them for the labor or anything else they may have contributed while they lived within it. To do so would violate the vow to renounce all possessions. Any who are unsure about such a commitment should rather stay away, keep what is theirs, and leave us in peace.

And people call us a cultii
Daniel: this is like the pharisees, as I see it. They are making a legal system for salvation.
Daniel: i would like to find where they go over what they teach and believe, aside from the communal living stuff
Daniel:

He made man and woman for each other, each in his image and likeness, and yet each incomplete without the other.

Where does Scripture say this "incomplete" ?
Daniel:

The church community must uphold Jesus’ teaching, which is the only stand consistent with real truthfulness and love. Even if separation should occur in isolated cases, no member of the church community may divorce his or her spouse. Further, no divorced member may remarry if a former spouse is still living.

It's not wrong for a believer and unbeliever to divorce.
Daniel:

In our communities, members can enter into marriage only with the blessing of the church community.

.. what? Scripture says "let them marry"
Madea: The only group other than you guys that believe polygyny is acceptable is the Fundamentalist Latter Day Saintsiii that I know of unfortunately.

They don't say you need to join them / give away all your things to be saved. That's just a condition of being apart of their community. If you asked them, the inflling of the Holy Spirit could be done outside of their communities without making their vows. It would be difficult to maintain a community like that with everyone just doing as they please, coming and going.

This is a link to their in depth beliefs: Foundations of our Faith and Calling

No where in the scripture does it use the word incomplete, but God did declare that it wasn't good for man to be alone, thus leading Him to create a woman. Genesis is probably where they get that idea.

You're correct on the divorce front, as are you on the let them marry thing.
Daniel: so then you would join a group that you know teaches falsehood?
Daniel:

The method of baptism that may be used – whether immersion or pouring over – is unimportant. What matters is the intervention of God to fully cleanse, forgive, and heal the one baptized.

pouring water over someone isn't immersing them in water
Madea: Yep, they're wrong
Madea: But I was already immersed both in the name of the trinity,iv and in Jesus name, so I've covered both bases
Joëlle: That thing with Biker clubs may be true.
My dad was in one.
Not all are like the Hell's Angels lol.
We all went out for an event one day and it was quite nice.
They also "ride out" in memoriam of a dead member or family or friend.
Similar vests, badges, etc
Can be quite nice
Joëlle:

and people call us a cult

Hilarious.
Madea:

so then you would join a group that you know teaches falsehood?

How many groups exist that don't teach falsehood? I honestly think I have a better shot at heaven at the Bruderhof, then the inevitability of me killing myself on my own
Joëlle: Must the group be communal?
Madea: Yeah, I want a complete reset. I don't want my livelihood to hinge on my individual ability.
Joëlle: Learning from Francis

The Bruderhof has worked with the Catholic Church for decades. Despite some doctrinal differences, we need to encourage each other to work for Biblical moral values. Thus it was that four of us, including my wife, Burgel, and I, were invited to meet Pope Francis for a couple of minutes in Washington, DC, last September 24 at the Vatican Nunciature. It was a great honor and blessing for us.

Madea: Acts 4:35
Scripture: Acts 4:35 - King James Version (KJV)

<35> And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.

Madea: Yep, their Catholic association is gross but at least there's still a distinctionv
Joëlle: Oh. Wait. You were aware of that ?

Looking for other groups is going to be really hard.
Some groups may not even have a website.
What if it is a family or two meeting in a home?
How do you find them among millions of people?

And yet, it is still worth trying... even if it takes a long time...

I don't think I could be under elders who flirt with an anti Christ (the Pope and the RCC) like this..
Madea: I was aware that they had a cordial relationship, much like the LDS has with the RRC and other groups.
Madea: It is still worth trying. But I need a start over, or I'll kill myself.
Joëlle: So, you would take the express train to hell then?vi
Instead of waiting?
Daniel:

But I was already immersed both in the name of the trinity, and in Jesus name, so I've covered both bases

Madea, by who? and while you had false beliefs?
Joëlle: You seemed a bit more hopeful before... What happened?
Daniel:

How many groups exist that don't teach falsehood? I honestly think I have a better shot at heaven at the Bruderhof, then the inevitability of me killing myself on my own

not many exist. You have a better shot joining no group than to join them
Daniel: Joëlle, nice find.
Madea: First time was by a baptist pastor, 2nd time was by a oneness pentecostal. I mean c'mon guy, you can't possibily believe you don't have at least some false beliefs that you're not aware of. The whole basis of our faith is on old writings that multiple people interpret differently. The people described in these writings likely didn't even have all these writings compiled together like we do either. The way I see it, no matter what we do, we're taking a gamble with our eternity because there's an antidote to literally anything you can believe.
Joëlle:

Martin Johnson was born in England in 1936. He has also lived in Greece, Israel, Nigeria, and the United States. For many years he has worked in ecumenical relations between the Bruderhof and other organizations such as the Kibbutz movement, the Mennonite Church, and the Catholic Church. His work has taken him to Vienna, Zagreb, Athens, Cairo, Berlin, London, Lagos, Jerusalem, and Rome, where he has met with three popes. He and his wife Burgel have been married for thirty-eight years and live at the Maple Ridge Bruderhof.

He admits to being ecumenical...
Madea: If you guys could find me a better communal group I'd be happy to join
Joëlle: Yes, but like Apollos they changed... Did they not?
Daniel: i own my house and my things but if a fellow saint asked for something i would not refuse it to them
Madea: Why do you believe that holding some false beliefs leads to hell?vii I could understand that in relation to the topic of salvation or Yeshua Himself, but why just general things
Daniel: how can you know something is false and still go on doing it and still be saved?
Madea: Because every group has falsehood so it's a game of choose your falsehood. But I mean in a general sense Daniel, if someone legit believed a small detail, different than you, how could that small detail be relevant to their salvation if they didn't know better?
Daniel: Hebrews 10:26-31
Scripture: Hebrews 10:26-31 - New King James Version (NKJV)

<26> For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, <27> but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. <28> Anyone who has rejected Moses' law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. <29> Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? <30> For we know Him who said, "Vengeance is Mine, I will repay," says the Lord. And again, "The Lord will judge His people." <31> It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Daniel: they do know better
Madea: In this world now, the only choice is sin :/
Daniel: those who fear God will repent of the sin
Daniel: not continue living in it
Daniel: that is, not agree to disagree on it or make it into a "common thing" like it's no big deal

  1. And drugs aren't inherently bad anyway.

  2. See "Marks of a Cult"


  3. Darwin: See Biblical Families


  4. Darwin: Immersed into a false doctrine. Trinity = false doctrine. See He Is Holy Gods.


  5. Darwin: That's like saying, “Their Satanic association is gross, but . . . .”

  6. See "Suicide"


  7. Darwin: Because, “among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.” (2 Thessalonians 2:10)

One Response

  1. [...] How should Christians "be socialist" among unbelievers who are not? They should "forsake all" that they have, which is a matter of the "heart," and therefor not requiring actual disposal or distribution of property -- the possessions being given away in conscience. [...]

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